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usnjay

I'd love to see the sudden switch the Democratic party would make when immigrants went from being a source of Democratic votes to Republican ones. All the sudden they'd oppose illegal immigration b/c "we're exploiting the immigrants".

Of course, we're exploiting them now for cheap labor, but the Democrats are ok with it now since it gives them more power.

usnjay

GK:
Although I should also add that being a member of the military I oppose any use of the military as a means of fixing society, rather than protecting it. For the same reasons I oppose forcing every male to join the military in order to learn discipline, or using the military as an alternative to prison.

But it would be funny.

Chuck the Lucky

Is there not already a system by which immigrants can gain citizenship via military service for the US? I thought I had heard that somewhere.

Also, I think that there would still be lots of people who would rather work for low wages outside of war zones. You are still going to need to build a wall guarded with cardboard cut-outs of bears holding sharks to frighten people away.

What might be an even better idea is to offer citizenship to Mexicans who work for new branch of the Military that would provide the training you mentioned while doing public infrastructure work in their own country. Sort of like a cross between the Army Corps of Engineers and the Peace Corp. Not only will they be trained and more ready for American life due to their education but they will leave their own country a little better off.

JoePike

Outstanding idea, though the language barrier may be more of a challenge for these new recruits than you think. And I think more would be willing to join if the tenure was more like 3 years instead of 6.

Slightly off topic, I found this 'Cow and Boy' comic to be perfect for the subject matter of this blog:

http://www.comics.com/comics/cowandboy/index.html

Brutus

"When they emerge as US citizens after their 6 years of service, they ... could even go to college."

I seriously doubt that most immigrant ex-military would have the academic background to be admitted to college -- unless, of course, one expects to go to the Univ. of Phoenix via one's computer.

"This is very attractive for the United States, because ... [it]will be a way to separate out which illegals from Mexico truly want to become Americans and contribute positively to American society."

Has it been demonstrated that immigrants really care about contributing to American society? Do American citizens really care about contributing to American society? Self-interest and opportunity (having a better life than back in the old country) are the prime motivators for immigration. For citizens born here, support of American society is merely a default posture.

"It will irritate the corrupt elite in Mexico, as the people who otherwise were a burden on the public services in the US will now be strengthening America, and may even gain the political clout to influence change in Mexico in the more distant future."

Why is irritating the corrupt Mexican elite in America's interest? And most certainly, Mexicans in the U.S. already influence change in Mexico. Billions of dollars flow out of the U.S. economy right now as immigrants send money to their families in the Mexico. That's a pretty significant influence (to immigrate, if nothing else).

"It will infuriate military-hating anti-Americans who deride this as a scheme to cultivate cannon fodder, even as Mexicans who participate will have done so by choice."

Freedom of choice is questionable when many Mexicans face real survival pressure by staying in Mexico. Further, my worst fear would be that, since we already tend to treat aliens (legal or not) as endowed with fewer rights than citizens, alien military would indeed come to be viewed as cannon fodder, especially as the U.S. continues to prosecute its dishonorable wars. And what is a "military-hating anti-American"? In reverse, to be pro-American means to be pro-military?

KnightErrant

Already happening. Illegal aliens are required to register for the draft.

About 4% of the armed services are non-citizens. While they have to have "green cards," fake green cards are accepted.

Sen. Orrin Hatch has introduced the DREAM Act (S. 2075), which will grant permanent residency status to any illegal alien who serves two years in the Armed Services.

Posthumous citizenship (Public Law 101-249) can be granted to aliens who die in military service. Posthumous citizenship grants no rights to the dead soldier's family.

S. Singh

Didn't the Romans create a similar policy? Wasn't this policy (arguably) a major catalyst to the beginning of their fall?

Liberal Smasher

Brutus,

You think America's wars are dishonorable? At the same time, do you excuse the activities of Al-Qaeda? That tells me all about you that pro-America people need to know.

jeffolie

I oppose. Paying illegals $120,000 with benefits and money for college to become citizens is unfair to those who become citizens legally.

GK

But this would be a *legal* means. Plus, all the radical leftists that are pulling the puppet strings of the recent rallies will now oppose Mexicans joining the US military, leaving them politically blindsided and bewildered.

Plus, the $120,000 is not a giveaway, it is a salary for 6 years of military service (including possible deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan).

It certainly is not perfect, but solves *many* problems, and is better than what is going on right now.

Eric

I can't think of anything better than a lot of uneducated, poor and entitlement-seeking Mexicans getting M-16s, Hummers and military training.

GK

Eric,

Surely you read the article where it states there will be a small intake quota and a selection process. Plus, any misbehavior would lead to discharge, and a loss of a chance for citizenship.

Plus, how is it more risky than giving poor, uneducated, violent inner-city American youths these same things when they join the military? There are codes of conduct and command structures, you know.

why

On a slightly unrelated note, I just saw a CNN newsflash that stated that Bush's approval rating is now 34%, his lowest ever, and that 80% of voters polled said they will vote Democratic next time.

What is everybody's take on this?

GK

I say Bush's approval is low relative to what people hoped of him.

But it is not low in relation to who would be President in his place, John Kerry.

If an election were held today between Bush and Kerry, Bush would still win.

Note that Bush's low approval is due to CONSERVATIVES feeling he is not advancing conservative goals enough. That certainly does not mean they have become leftists. A key difference. In other words, 34% disapproving of Bush does not mean 66% would vote for a Democrat. Not by a long shot.

why

Yes, but the newsflash also said "...80% of voters polled said they will vote Democratic next time."

Unfortunately, I do not know who or what the sample size of this poll consisted of (what do they normally consist of), but in general, can that happen so soon? i.e. everybody becoming so distraught with the republican's general philosophy and thus voting Democratic, thinking that that is the more moderate postion now?

Historically, it always does - political ideologies oscillate left-to-right of center, with the party in power slowly becoming more extreme over time, and the other, oppressed party finally regaining the majority vote after an awakening.

e.g. American Revolution, Civil War, Civil Rights Movement, etc. You can always see how one philosophy of thinking (left or right) was the oppressed/underdog and then came into power.

Kind of like Newtonian physics of balancing.

The question is, how soon will the next, inevitable, oscillating shift happen this time?

Big C

just wondering, has any one actually been polled on the Presidents' approval rating? No ones ever called me and ask if I approved or not. who here has taken part in one of these?

dj elliott

I am not sure of the details but, there is already a reduction in the time required to naturalization for personnel serving in the US Military.

The difference is that they have to be able to speak english coming in and they are banned from profesions requiring a security clearance.

Had 12 crew out of 334 O/E on my last ship that were still foreign nationals.

These illegal people are breaking the law and they claim they want to live here in the U.S. well go through the process of becoming legal what is wrong with that? Learn the english language that is what we speak here in the U.S. and if the countries they are coming from are so great then why not go back there. Don't bring the drugs and crime here! Companies should not hire them and if they do there should be a fine paid after all these illegals are breaking the law

fernando

well i came to this country iligelay like eight years ago even thought i dirint whant to come because i was only eight years old. Now i am 17 this county has been
home for me giving me shelter and food i would be honord if i died for this country the reason why i am tipyng this is because i would like to become a legal citycen i would join the army. but i dont know how you join i whant in so is there a way to join the army or marines? is you know please please contacme at escalbillo@yahoo.com

fernando

well i came to this country iligelay like eight years ago even thought i dirint whant to come because i was only eight years old. Now i am 17 this county has been
home for me giving me shelter and food i would be honord if i died for this country the reason why i am tipyng this is because i would like to become a legal citycen i would join the army. but i dont know how you join i whant in so is there a way to join the army or marines? is you know please please contacme at escalbillo@yahoo.com

Kristina

Athough I do not agree with illegalimmigration I am for this program. My situation is a rare one but for people like me this program would change my whole life. I was born in canada and my mother bought me here in 5th grade, without any paper work. I am 20 years old and I am having an aweful time becoming a U.s citzen or even legal resident. My whole life seems messed up. This would give people like me a chance.

Guillermo Roy Amador

i lived 19 years in the us and was deported for dwi. i have a three year old in new york city can you please keep me informed on this new program i would be the first to sign up.

Debbie White

I am in the process of writing a paper on illegal immigrants and the military. I am a military spouse whose husband has currently deployed now three different times. The latest one was just in January. I am in favor of the illegals joining the military. Reasons maybe selfish, not sure. But with the recruits down and the military not reaching its goals. Everyone wants their soldier home. In order for this to happen there has to be more bodies. How can we get these bodies if AMERICANs, both male and female are not wanting to reach out to join. If you do not get the numbers then we have issues such as not being able to retire, or you can not ETS when you are suppose to, why because there is nobody to replace you. So if the illegal immigrants who want to be citizens and is willing to serve, why not let them. This will solve the two main issues. The illegal immigrant problem, and then the mililtary will have their bodies to continue future missions. I personally know a few illegal immigrants who would do anything to fight for "their country", which is what they consider America. But they can not do a thing to show their alliegence to America because they can not join. If they were allowed to join and make a commitment to the US then they should recieve thier citizenship. This will also give us a chance to have our husbands home sooner and longer. Or if nobody wants to do this. I can always bring up what my first paper was my first semester of school, "Reinstating the Military Draft in America Today". SO my question to you is, if you are an American, have you done everything that you can do to support America, are you proud to be an American? Then why not serve to protect this country that you love. If you don't then you either start the draft and get the numbers or you allow the illegals who really want to be American Citzens to join.

Rmna316

Hmmm

Interesting post and comments. Too bad that you're all ignorant of the history of "illegals" who have served in the US Military since the Mexican-American War.

Whenever the US has been at war "illegals" have joined to fight-especially after instances like Pearl Harbor.

Maybe you should do some simple Google searches and read about all of the people who are currently active duty who signed up with fake documents or who are awarded citizenship after they died in service to a country that wasn't theres for a people too ignorant and ungrateful to appreciate their sacrifice.

Mexican Nationals have served in the American Military since the begining of an "American Military" and I don't see any "Mexican Elite" being infuriated.

SanFranciscoJim

This has already been true for a long time. When I was in the 82nd Airborne Division, we had a guy in our unit who had joined as a Haitian and got gotten American citizenship after a tour of duty.

You used to have to get a Green Card first, but I think that requirement has been waived.

You still have to satisfy the usual requirements of citizenship: good moral character, loyalty to the U.S., knowledge of English and the history and government of the U.S.

Alan David Celis

i just got deported from the U.S.A. at 23 yrs old and my dream and lifetime goal has always been to join the US Military. Lol, i was the crazy one going to the mall without a social security always trying to join too but like always no luck. And ever since high school i have always participated in all JROTC programs and classes. to give my life for the country i grew up in since i been 3yrs old is my real goal and happieness. i wish this program really did exist. i dont like living in Mexico, i cant hardly speak spanish!

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