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Nice dream.


Toyota released RAV4-EV SUV for Consumer Market in 1995...
The heart of the EV model is its 50kW permanent magnet motor and 24 nickel metal hydride batteries rated at 288 volts. The maintenance-free electric motor is neatly integrated into the single speed, front-wheel transaxle and is rated at 67 bhp at between 3,100 and 4,600 rmp. This gives the 3440 lbs. vehicle a combined city/highway driving range of 125 miles and a top speed of 78 mph. According to Armstock, these are "real world" numbers and not just wishful thinking.
FYI, the average american drives about 60 miles a day, so one charge is good for 2 day driving. The over-night charge will cost you about $3, it's about $0.024 per mile! Compare $2.3 per mile on gas ;).
The retail price of this car is $42,000.
The dream come true, why do we need hybrids, when we have the TECHNOLOGY?



Don't be so sure that no progress is happening. Check out the wind power graph in the 2011 entry.

5 years ago, if someone told you that Hybrids would be selling is sizable numbers by 2006-07, you would have denied that too.


Elements of this timeline may be off or even in different chronological order but it does not seem to rely on sci-fi or fantasy. If anything, due to its large scope and general focus on today's larger areas of energy usage (transportation and lighting) it leaves out the other influences on the energy market.

Computer systems which can, for a small outlay of electricity to an embedded processor, can put light and heat just where people need them at the right time are one such influence. Agricultural systems (indoor green houses at high pressure and elevated CO2 levels or ordinary outdoor systems with underground irrigation and fertilizer delivery systems) are another.

Continued urbanization will change the patterns of transportation energy use and make privately owned and automated mass transit for both people and materials possible and economical.

More sophisticated manufacturing will make the movements of parts, equipment and such over large distances far less necessary.

I do not understand why people seem to feel that humans can not solve problems especially when there is a huge financial incentive to do so. There seems to be some kind of fantasy that any day now Y2K will go off, the climate will collapse, a meteor will strike the earth and we will all be thrown back into the stone age just for the pleasure of having been the ones to have said "I told you so". I think it must be "Noah syndrome".



Let us do the math. The $42,000 electric car loses. $2.3 (using your number)cents per mile is about what a US A-l Abrams tank uses. Paying $42,000 for the electric car never pays for itself. If you use my number of 12.5 ($2.50 per gallon at 20 miles per gallon for an average car) cents per mile you still get $12,500 in savings for an electric free car which still does not work out as economical.


Hybrids are no longer rip roaring popular. The leading hybrid, the Toyota Prius no longer has a waiting list. You can walk into Toyota and drive out immediately with one off the lot. Ford has a hefty, choking inventory of hybrids.

The EPA has announced that the Prius does NOT get 60 mpg. I gets 35 mpg in real world driving according to the TV expose I watched. The EPA has been so embrassed that it is going to revise the mpg ratings downward very soon. Plenty of regular gas only vehicles do better than 35 mpg. Hybrids are hyped by Hollywood and pretty much out of touch with realty and overpriced. The GM plug in offering is pure hype and its lithium battery pack costs are over $100,000.

The Europeans use small diesels which are too smoggy for us. Get real, there is no vehicle revolution for the US (2010 : Hybrid, plug-in hybrid, and fully electrical cars represent 5% of total automobiles on the road in the US). California made laws mandating, zero emmission, electric cars long ago which never happened - more nice dreams.

None of my neighbors have energy saving light bulbs. I have priced them and they are expensive and the 3 that I used burned out quickly. (2007-09 : Compact Fluorescent Lightbulbs and Light Emitting Diodes begin to replace incandescent bulbs across the US)- nice dream.

Wind and solarvoltaics are heavily government subsidized. The politics is heavy and the playing field is not level. There is a hugh tax break in California for solar.


The housing market is starting to decline as I predicted. Subprime mortgage derivatives are in meltdown (31% this month alone). Prime mortgage derivatives are in decline (7.5%) in one week.

Subprime lenders are imploding. 25% of mortgages in 2006 were subprime. Over $1 Trillion adjustible rate mortgages move out of their teaser rates and into their high interest rate portions of their mortgage, this year.

The deflationary depression is coming.



I have also said that Housing will decline, and the era of big gains is gone for a long time.

But I don't think this will lead to a 'deflationary depression'.

Plus, let's get back to the energy question. So you think there will be NO innovation between now and 2025?

The leading hybrid, the Toyota Prius no longer has a waiting list.

Maybe because..... they increased production? The sales rate has not dropped. There are more hybrid models now (Camry, etc.), not less.


Fischer-Tropf fuel is already beginning to replace crude in aviation fuel. Your timeline on that front is wayyy off if the scuttlebutt I'm hearing out of the Air Force is correct. (no cites, sorry)



I'm sorry but you speak nonsense. Why do you compare civil car to a military behemoth which pollutes as much as 10 cars and does merely 5 mile per gallon?
You can convert any gas vehicle to an electric one for $10,000 now, so if you buy a $300 used gas car, convert it to an electrical, and never need to change oil.
There is another part of it: the average car pollutes (in carbon) about 43g/Mj running on gas, the electric car (if charged from the electric grid powered by coal) pollutes 12g/Mj, and if it's charged from sollar or wind power, it pollutes 0g/Mj (well, there is pollution from producing the solar panel, wind generator, or the car itself, but it will bring the pollution number to 1-2g/Mj).
People say taht electrical cars are expensive, well... everybody wants an SUV and they pay $30,000 for one, can they add just $12,000 to that and save their grandkids health trouble? With $50,000 total payment, it will be about $300/month for 15 years, which will be about $13,500 in savings on gas, if you do about 60 miles a day and your car makes 20mpg. And over those 15 yeas you dont need to change oil ;), you also may install better batteries and improve your millage.

And then ask yourself: what is important for you, saving $500 driving a gas car and ruin the Earth atmosphere, or driving an electric car being $500 poorer and breath clean air? Remember, that if 200,000,000 Americans (USA is the #1 of Earth pollutants, if you didnt know) switch to electric cars, the north and south poles stop melting, less people will have asthma and less people will die from the lung cancer, are you ready to make the difference?



I have heard of that, but I do not think it replaces oil-based fuels for passenger jets, even by 2025, given the huge volumes needed. Replacing jet fuel is much harder than making passenger cars migrate to electricity.

So, it appears some people think the list is too optimistic, while others think it is too pessimistic. This could be a sign that it is close to the weighted average of expectations.



"Compare $2.3 per mile on gas ;)." That is about one mile per gallon - bs.



"You can convert any gas vehicle to an electric one for $10,000 now" - bs



"Remember, that if 200,000,000 Americans (USA is the #1 of Earth pollutants, if you didnt know) switch to electric cars, the north and south poles stop melting, less people will have asthma and less people will die from the lung cancer, are you ready to make the difference?"

Have you no common sense? There are about 3 Billion people in just 2 countries (China and India) compared to .3 Billion in the US. They have 10 times as many people. The pollution in these 2 is horrible and accelerating.

Urban Air Pollution Management
By Frannie A. Léautier

Urban air pollution is a serious problem worldwide. It is especially serious in the many mega-cities of Asia. The gravity of the urban air pollution problem is largely attributed to the complex and multi-sectoral nature of everyday air polluting activities as well as the inadequate actions of governments. The lack of actions by governments is further due to poor information and weak understanding of the air pollution problems and, in addition, lack of institutional capacity and coordination among government agencies in the various sectors contributing to air pollution. Driven by the Millennium Development Goals (MDG), the international community is fighting global development problems including air pollution and other environmental problems.

Why care about air pollution?
The health impacts of air pollution are very serious and, currently, second only to the impacts of water and sanitation in urban areas. As shown in Figure 1, air pollution imposes a heavy burden on the health of urban populations throughout the developing world. Every year, there are an estimated 0.5-1 million premature deaths by air pollution worldwide.

Air pollution control
Because air pollution disproportionately and negatively affects the poor, the international development community is targeting air pollution as one of its efforts to achieve the Millennium Development Goals (in this case, Goal #7: Ensure Environmental Sustainability). The World Development Report 2003: Sustainable Development in a Dynamic World (World Bank 2003) identifies the impact of air pollution on the quality of life and links it to poverty reduction.

Urban air quality management
While the international community has recognized air pollution as one of the environmental problems that need to be resolved, solutions to air pollution, do not come easily, and results are not visible within the length of a political cycle.

Figure 2 shows that countries in Asia like China and India face extremely high pollution exposure levels that call for immediate action. This figure also shows that as economic development and income increase, air pollution exposure decreases. The pollution exposure in high-income countries is much lower, providing hope that solutions can be found.

The role of the international community
The international community should be committed to work together and assist countries to achieve development goals by assuming the following roles:

Advocacy role: Raising awareness and learning from past experience to leapfrog development.
Knowledge creation and sharing role: Exploring and documenting the relationship between policy, technical, institutional, and cultural aspects of pollution management.
Brokering role: Coordinating activities at local, regional and global levels and promoting public-private partnerships to resolve problems.
Financing role: Assisting the development and implementation of action plans to manage air quality in developing countries and cities.
Skills building role: Helping countries get the skills they need to effectively manage air quality problems through technical assistance, training programs, twinning arrangements, and site visits.

In addition, the international community can be advocates of and support sustainability of the private sector, and promote environmental, social, and corporate responsibility.

As for partnership programs that help countries enhance the capacities of collaboration among different stakeholders, the Cities Alliance formed in 1999—a partnership between the UN, Habitat, the World Bank, and others—provides examples of horizontal city-to-city cooperation maximizing development assistance from multi-laterals and bilaterals. Another example is The Clean Air Initiative for Asian Cities, which was jointly launched in 2001 by the World Bank and ADB and other partners.
(Visit: www.citiesalliance.org and www.worldbank.org/

The World Bank uses a variety of tools to achieve its goal and focuses on 1) promoting information dissemination (e.g. Website, Open discussion list server); 2) providing air quality management training; and 3) developing pilot studies (diesel pollution reduction strategies for cities). By carrying out these activities, the World Bank promotes real actions and investments on the ground.

Frannie Léautier, Vice President, The World Bank Institute.

Based on keynote speech the author made at the Regional Conference on Better Air Quality in Asian and Pacific Rim Cities, Hong Kong, December 2002.

Lvovsky, Kseniya, Gordon Hughes, David Maddison, Bart Ostro, and David Pearce 2000. Environmental Costs of Fossil Fuels: A Rapid Assessment Method with Application in Six Cities, Environment Department Papers NO. 78, The World Bank.

IFC 2002. Developing Value: The Business Case for Sustainability in Emerging Markets, International Finance Corporation.

World Bank 1997. Clear Water, Blue Skies: China's Environment in the New Century, The World Bank.

World Bank 2003. World Development Report 2003: Sustainable Development in a Dynamic World, The World Bank.

Books available at: http://publications.worldbank.org/ecommerce


It is true that China's greenhouse gas emission rate is rapidly closing in on that of America, and will surpass America in about 5 years. China consumes 4 times as much energy to produce one unit of GDP as the US.

But the environuts are usually just anti-Americans, who will drop this issue once China becomes a bigger polluter than the US.



India will not be far behind. The combination of China and India probably already has left the US in the dust.



India is about half that of China, as there are a lot fewer cars. China is still a little bit behind the US in pollution creation, but will overtake us soon.



> "Compare $2.3 per mile on gas ;)." That is about one mile per gallon - bs.

You've missread everything I wrote - that's for gas vehicles, not electric ones. Please, read the post carefully before saying bad words ;)

> "You can convert any gas vehicle to an electric one for $10,000 now" - bs

Read this:

"So where does this leave us? Converting a gas car to electric can cost between $5,000 to $7,000 to do it yourself or $10,000 to 20,000 to have a conversion shop do it for you. If you compare this to the price of a new car today, EVs can be cost-competitive."


"How much will it cost?

The least expensive conversion I know of was done for $1,500. This was a 72 volt, 12 horsepower, Yugo conversion, and many would say, a poor example. While it is certainly a reasonable commuter car, it would never be considered a performance car. Most conversions are done for $4,000 to $6,000. When more "goodies" are added, the more the cost goes up. It also depends on how much repair work the donor car needs."


Good Info:

Eat this! :D

> Have you no common sense? There are about 3 Billion people in just 2 countries (China and India) compared to .3 Billion in the US. They have 10 times as many people.

China and India didnt reach yet the economical height when people are driving cars - when it happens in 5-7 years, this planet will be cooked. Dont count people, count huosehold cars and amount of factories.


The tributaries of the Amazon have enough hydro-potential to power the ENTIRE world's energy needs... ALL FORMS.


It's just a design-build project. Not much new technolgy needed.

To repeat: Andian heights + Amazonian reflux = God's natural solar energy collector: a million square miles across.

TVA/ BPA writ large solves everything FOREVER.

We could start tomorrow.


"So, it appears some people think the list is too optimistic, while others think it is too pessimistic. This could be a sign that it is close to the weighted average of expectations"

Yep. That's usually a very, very good sign.


I started converting my old Saturn into an electric car, why dont you? ;)

Stop being an oil junkie ;)



Keep us posted on the total number of hours and expenses.

Rich Casebolt

Yes, keep us posted ...

... on how much mileage you get from the batteries before they are worn out from the severe cycling and require replacement ...

... and how much it costs to replace them ...

... and how battery performance degrades at low temperatures.

I could use the data.

I made a good bit of my living in the 1990's by designing test equipment for EV/hybrid and other advanced battery systems.

Today I design battery systems -- both the packs themselves, and the associated chargers -- that use the most advanced cell technologies available for "real world" (as opposed to lab experiment) use ... and even then, my customer base is much less cost-sensitive than the typical automobile owner/leasee.

What holds EV's and hybrids back (and believe me, I would welcome pure EV's ... maybe then I could go back to working on my own car!) is NOT greed or a lack of investment ... but the nexus between the laws of physics and the laws of economics.

Ignore that nexus, and you may divert resources from more cost-effective environmental-protection pursuits by chasing an elusive ghost.

Always keep in mind that economic prosperity allows one to concern themselves more with protecting the environment ... as opposed to concerning themselves about where their next meal and rent money is coming from.


Hate to not talk about hybrids (not!).
I saw a chart produced by Lawrence Livermore Labs on US energy consumption by from source to use ( http://eed.llnl.gov/flow/02flow.php ). Approx 3/4ths of our electrical generation is spent on transmission loss. I almost cried when I read your energy predictions and did not see superconducting transmission lines listed. I have not heard anything about high temp superconductors for about about ten years. Any hope on that front?



I read that carbon nanotubes can achieve superconductor properties under some circumstances. But it seemed inconclusive, and I don't think it will happen by 2030.


High Temperature Super (HTS) Conductors are now in commercial production.

The number one manufacturer is projecting economic crossover vs copper by 2010. (Greg Yurek, American Superconductor Corporation -- ASC... Massachusetts.)

Current applications are directed at substations at medium voltages -- 2k to 35k volts.

ASC is shipping 22kM of cable to South Korea... ASC is building a prototype superconducting motor for US Navy use. ASC is shipping a HTS SuperVAR capacitor to the TVA.


Most of the above predictions will be completely under cut by the rapid expansion of Compressed Natural Gas powered heat engines.

CNG is already commercially viable. Honda is in production with CNG automobile this model year.

The re-allocation of natural gas away from stationary prime movers will effectively eliminate most oil imports.

Alaska has staggering natural gas deposits that seem to have escaped the common memory. All that is necessary is to pipe them to the lower states. I'd favor an undersea route that lays atop the continental shelf, wrapping around Alaska towards California. I'd be an automated lay much in the manner of telecommunications cables.

Sad to say the problem is solved without exotics.

And of the Amazon?

Hydrolyse the headwaters and pump hydrogen gas worldwide via undersea piping. Again, just follow the continental shelves and deploy from a mother ship.

Apparently the staggering hydro-potential of Peru is just too much to comprehend/ accept. It is orders of magnitude larger than the hydro-potential of North America. Yup, just that much rain. Enough to pick up all the electric demand of the entire hemisphere... the rest of the world... and still have enough left over to establish the hydrogen economy.

No other tricks are necessary. The cost per joule will be rock bottom... and drive all other energy extraction methods into limbo.



That would be very good. But I am not THAT optimistic.


First they'd need a government that could handle said business realities, and a blessed lack of machete-wielding nutcases chopping people up in Mao's name...


China is WAY "ahead" of the US in most kinds of pollution creation, and has been for some time.

Just not yet CO2 Greenhouse Gas emissions.

Sulpheric acid rain, toxic river and waterways polution, smog generally, uncontrolled chemical waste disposal - all way "ahead" of the US today.


I plan on making a practical hovercraft within 20 years. I predict it will take another 20 years for it to become widely used among civilion population.

Vasudev Vashistha ( Chief Executive Er. )

The world economy is being controlled by oil producing countries and their unity. The second power of the world is Auto Vehicles Manufacturers in the world. If all the manufacturers can join together and make a strong association globaly, the same controlling power would be transferred to end user of vehicles. It means in the hand of public. The probleme of pollution and other economy would be controlled and solved automatically. Let the loby of OPEC and other oil producers should be weakend. The type of vehicles required to manufacture by using the gasoline or any other form of fuel should be decided by looking the easy availability in the future and should be fixed same for the fixed period along with the scope of new research by the combined efforts of the manufacturers. Let the great people of great countries should be blessed by the GOD to join each other and take one decision do some thing really good for the world.Rest all related problems would be automatically solved.
Vasudev Vashistha

M. Simon

Here is a prospect you left out in your near term (next 25 years) time line:

Easy Low Cost No Radiation Fusion
Bussard Fusion Reactor

Brian H

M. Simon;
See your Bussard, and raise you FocusFusion, 10-12 years, .1-.2¢/kwh. So ~2018, 2020. 5 GW reactors @$200,000. Performance of development rigs to date: millions of times closer to breakeven.

moving quotes

I think your time line is very down to earth, our consumption getting higher and more and more cars are hitting the road, the result is a massive search for solutions. I believe that together with your suggestions, more surprising solutions will evolved. Thanks for the interesting post.

chanel 2.55

5 years ago, if someone told you that Hybrids would be selling is sizable numbers by 2006-07, you would have denied that too.

Victor Wetherbee

At least, he got the 2010 prediction right! Almost every car manufacturer across the globe (not just Japan or US) is trying its best to materialize electric and hybrid concepts and release them to the market with almost 0% flaw.

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