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brokerdavelhr

GK,
Well said.

I am an American of 'Caucasian' background (a very poor description at best), who works and resides in the DC metro area. My father was in the Army before he retired, and I served my active time, and am now in the guard. As such, I was always raised to believe that all men, are indeed created equal. Now whether or not they stay that way is another story entirely. That is up to the individual though, NOT the race.
Bill Cosby is often shunned by the NAACP because of his take on the whole race card. Sure racism is still in existence today. But as Bill Cosby will attest to (and he is African-American in heritage for those of you who do not know), racism is more often an excuse these days, and is very rarely the reality. I will give some examples- Almost every single boss I have had was (and still is) 'African-American'. They are very intelligent, well-rounded, and some of the finest people I have ever had the honor of knowing. They all have one thing in common- not one of them had a special scholarship, treatment, or problem due to their race. They did what every American before them has done, and that is to earn their niche in an un-bias manor.
Example two. I walk the streets of DC, sometimes Jersey city, and just about any other major city, and constantly see wanna-be gangsters walking down the street playing into the stereo-type the modern day press shows of listening to bad music, talking about how the white man holds them down, and often refer to me as a cracker, and am usually given dirty looks until I leave the neighborhood. Oddly enough, they 'sport' brand new Nike shoes (price tag starts at 70$ a pop), Lugz boots (the same if not more), a brand name jersey (70$ at least!), and wonder why they have no money! I make a decent amount, but my entire outfit costs less then their shoes alone. But I am holding them back?
If you read my last post in the last article you wrote on, you will recall that I spoke of how invention and humanity is being held back by those who would prey upon it. The good ‘Reverends’ Al, Jesse, and Obama’s ex pastor are all prime examples. They tell the African American community that they are still victims of racism. The tell them to peacefully fight back against the evil racists who deny them good education, thus preventing them from a good college, etc. The fact of the matter is quite different. At a young age, your average African-American has it drilled into their heads by the media, that not only is racism alive and well, but that they are victims. Imagine that. A racist white country that want their whips back to force them back into slavery. What a crock. The next truth, is that these so called ‘Reverends’, break not only biblical ideals (which they tout as truth to back their cause when it benefits them), but take advantage of their own people (at least that is what they call them, heck to me, an American is an American no matter what color you are). They get special government funding (my tax dollars that could be used by my family to eat in a much healthier manor), social support (they drum this up by preying on the ignorant), etc., etc. And who benefits? The African-American communities? No, the sad truth is that out of millions of dollars collected/month for this cause, go to funding the NAACP, and other groups, instead of going to help the African-American community who gets constantly hood-winked by these guys. If you read history, you will find that many of the good ‘Reverends’ speeches and movements, have a lot in common with an Austrian named Hitler.
Sorry for taking up so much of your web-space GK, I just thought a detailed explanation would be appropriate. I will try to shorten my comments in the future (although this may lead to misinterpretation).

zyndryl

But the BEST 'scam artists' entrepreneur of all is Al Gore. I mean, he practically created the market for his carbon credit scam and even received a Nobel prize for doing so!

So, he's got Wright beat on that one.

BTW, nice photo of Halle!

stalker

A Savvy Entrepreneur, Nothing More

I haven't followed this story closely enough to comment more.

On the other hand,

Far from shame America, he has demonstrated how generous, to the illogical extreme, this country is.

No. "America" is not generous to him, he is generous to himself. Or did "America" give him the mansion for free?

GK

stalker,

His church did give him his mansion for free, he did not have to pay for it himself. His church operates within the system of the US economy.

Again, nowhere else can someone viciously bash a country where he can simultaneously receive a mansion from his church, while claiming to be a leader of a race that apparently provides much less than 50% of his DNA, in opposition to a race that provides more than 50% of his DNA.

In, say, Russia, if a Russian pretended to be a Georgian or Chechen, and proceeded to say this many factually incorrect, poisonous things about Putin, it would not result in living a lavish lifestyle.

stalker

In, say, Russia, if a Russian pretended to be a Georgian or Chechen, and proceeded to say this many factually incorrect, poisonous things about Putin, it would not result in living a lavish lifestyle.

Funny you should say that. Kasparov?? He was originally an Azeri Jew. Admittedly his money came from winning chess tournaments and only more recently his neocon sponsors in Washington. But then again, Wright didn't get that money for bashing America per se, but presumably for his pastoral services, for which there is a market.

GK

stalker,

Wright started as a pastor, but was bashing America to a large audience, for a period spanning 20 years. This shows that :

a) His audience (including Obama) at least tacitly agreed with his extremist views, and claims of oppression. It is true that he was delivering what his audience wanted, but he was shaping the hatred and self-pity of younger patrons as well.

b) One can claim to be an oppressed black man, while clearly being under 50% black.

Kasparov made his money outside Russia, and is a sportsperson. Kasparov isn't being hypocritical about anything. Plus, he is not an example of someone from the majority group (Russian) claiming to be part of a minority group (Chechens), who then says the Beslan massacre was a justifiable reaction on the part of the oppressed Chechen victims.

Aric

It's my first time to comment here, so I first want to say I appreciate your insights.

You are right that the black pastor business is lucrative. I also completely agree that the best route to success for any American is to forget about race, get on with life, and be a good person. However, I want to mention several points.

1. He 'condemned' American in several statements, but I do not believe he made a career on anti-Americanism. When watching his speeches, I sensed that Wright has a deep love for American and American ideals, yet there are things in America’s past that cannot be reconciled with these ideals. American history is a completely different narrative from the black perspective than from the white. 'Chicken's coming home to roost' is simply admitting that we have done things to other countries which contributed to people wanting to kill themselves to harm America. It is not taking blame away from terrorists. 'God damn America' could have easily been part of a sermon in which the main point was: "We are Americans, but our first loyalty is too God. No country has a monopoly on the truth. God is on the side of Love, not on the side of America. We have all sinned; whenever America sins, it deserves God’s condemnation. But God is a loving God; he does not condemn us but forgives us, so we must all try to be better people and build a better America." I believe he feels shame at some of America's actions, and wishes to bring them out with the hope of correcting them. The rhetoric is part of a black church service, where excitement is the norm. He is serving his constituency (I'm not defending or judging it here).

Even if Pastor Wright is a fraud and is milking his audience, the statements I made still apply to the African American (or black Christian) community at large.

2. When blacks talk of racism, they are not always referring to lynching and separate-but-equal laws. They could mean a tendency of whites or white institutions to undervalue minority culture. Many blacks feel they need to pretend to be someone else to be accepted. For example they may need to act more quiet or show less emotion in front of while colleagues at work. White American tends to be a more quiet and reserved culture than others I have seen. Sometimes when a black guy is talking loudly white mistakenly believe he is angry. These subtle differences can be nagging, and are sometimes called racism. Maybe African Americans just want us all to relax and not get uncomfortable when black guys at the next table are having a boisterous dinner. It would be stupid to suggest government intervention, but I do think the situation calls for at least a willingness to listen openly to the grievances minorities may have.

That Reverend Wright could be a prominent pastor for many years and retire to a mansion shows that a significant number of African Americans agree largely with what he says. The controversy over these videos shows that their ideas and ways of expressing them are still taboo in mainstream America.

FYI, I'm 100% white and have the sunburns to prove it.

GK

Aric,

1. It is absolutely valid to point out that he is simply saying what his sizable audience wants to hear. However, he is also shaping their perceptions, and worsening the hatreds that may have been milder. It is also turning away non-black (incl. Asian and Hispanic) voters from Obama.

'Chicken's coming home to roost' is simply admitting that we have done things to other countries which contributed to people wanting to kill themselves to harm America.

That is a very US-centric worldview to have. The group you are referring to has also killed people in London, Madrid, Bali, Beslan, Bombay, Southern Thailand, etc. and even in Islamic countries like Turkey, Jordan, Iraq, Pakistan, and Morocco. That, alone, destroys the myth that America's actions have created Islamic extremism. Americans are only a small fraction of their victims.

So your US-centric worldview leads you to actually underrate the merit and values of America. Imagine that. Much in the way a teenager of a successful, powerful family still thinks poorly of his father.

2. They could mean a tendency of whites or white institutions to undervalue minority culture.

That is nonsense. Whites, in my experience, do far more to accomodate minorities than vice-versa. Also, why is it that Asians manage to outperform whites economically? The richest group in America is a dark-skinned group (Indian-Americans), you know. They, too, suffered colonization from the British, which ended far more recently than slavery in the US. Yet most Indians in the US are Republicans.

Read this article on the 'Culture of Success'. Certain patterns are evident far, far beyond America.

Aric

I realize that my original comment was not really on topic; thanks for humoring me with a serious response anyway. I hope you don’t mind having this discussion here.

1. However, he is also shaping their perceptions, and worsening the hatreds that may have been milder. It is also turning away non-black (incl. Asian and Hispanic) voters from Obama.

I agree.

That is a very US-centric worldview to have.

I focus on US policy because I am American and because we have the most influence, but I do not think American is either the sole cause or target of terrorism.

That, alone, destroys the myth that America's actions have created Islamic extremism.

I don’t know if anyone is saying that America has created Islamic extremism; I certainly did not. If you explain away terrorist actions just by simply saying they are Islamic extremists, you fall far short of a full explanation. Why did they become extremists, and why did they choose to attack those specific places. Besides belief in Islam, they may become terrorists because of an extremist upbringing, personal problems, disagreement with their own government, or family members being victims of some injustice, to name a few. As for why they might attack America, reasons that have been given include: support of Israel, moral depravity, imperialism, and jealousy of our wealth. I expect you are familiar with more. What America does has an impact on how many people choose to follow an extremist path, and how much of their hatred (and terrorism) is targeted at America. Some of the reasons we can do something about, others we can’t, but it is foolish not to look at all of the causes. It is also not a sign of weakness to avoid doing things they don’t like. If we can avoid doing something that pisses them off, why not? It helps breed good will and makes us all safer. It is not ‘taking orders from Al-Qaeda’ or ‘appeasing the enemy.’ It is avoiding making enemies out of people who are not enemies and don’t need to be enemies.

Both praise and criticism of America deserve prominence in public discourse. A person should not be labeled as anti-American for any individual criticism, though they might deserve the label if they make a career out of it. Maybe that was your original point, and I don’t know how often he spoke about politics or race. I do not think he should be found guilty on the basis of a few comments.

2. Let me go backwards on this one.
I read the ‘Culture of Success’ article when you originally posted it, and I agree. Maybe even more relevant is that poor, rich, and middle classes have their own cultural characteristics that transcend national or racial lines.

They, too, suffered colonization from the British, which ended far more recently than slavery in the US.

I don’t think there is much of a parallel between British colonization and American slavery. Though Indians were subjected to foreign rule, they were still the vast majority, and maintained their language and culture (yes, I know English is the official language and college classes are taught in English, but native language was not lost). Africans were uprooted and

African American culture has little to do with African culture. Black Americans have much more in common with white Americans than with Africans, though this is probably true for anyone born and raised here. I wonder how Africans in American do compared to African-Americans. Even with the disadvantages of immigrants I wouldn’t be surprised if they have higher incomes.

Whites, in my experience, do far more to accomodate minorities than vice-versa.

Maybe that’s true. I’m not sure. I’ll have to think about. I agree there is a lot of rhetoric about multiculturalism, but when it comes down to specifics most people tend to think their way is best. Either way, it is relevant if blacks FEEL there is discrimination, even when it is not true.

That is nonsense.

Maybe I wasn’t clear, but I was not claiming this was a reason for economic discrepancy. All I was trying to say is that to many blacks, racism means more than legal discrimination and hatred. This difference in the definition of racism causes misunderstanding. I also wanted to point out that even blacks who are as ‘successful’ as whites may still feel like outsiders in their own country.

I guess I don’t disagree with what you actually wrote in your post, but I have inferred something about your beliefs from the tone of your writings that made me want to say what I said.

XLiberal

A Correction. Wright attended not Harvard, but Howard. Howard has long been a well-regarded school.
Regarding Wright's apparently being of greater than 50% white ancestry, remember the "one-drop" rule, where a small percentage of black ancestry was deemed sufficient to classify a person as black. Those in this country who have been called black have long been a predominantly mixed race.

brokerdavelhr

Another thing that I wonder about is why 'African-Americans' proudly tout their heritage, and blame the 'white man' for the slavery. Last time I looked, it was their 'African' ancestors who sold them out. What i find even more disturbing, is how we now have a 'black history' month, which tells of the proud African heritage. How on earth does that work out?

Aric,
You said that even a person of 'African American' decent might feel like an outsider. This is for two reasons (when applicable that is). 1- They have been raised their whole lives by the media and their family that they are still under persecution. 2- Makes for a great excuse doesn't it?
I gotta tell you man, this is certainly not the case for the majority. My NCO's in the army (when I was a private) didn't even know how to see color. They were placed in charge becuase they earned it like everyone else did. Also, for anyone in charge, feeling 'out of place' is a sign of weakness, and has no place in work for a person who is supposed to be in charge.
I go to a 'black barber' in my town. I do not feel out of place in any way, shape, or form. Chris gives me the best hair cuts, and is a great guy. The entire staff there makes up one of the best barber shops I have ever been too, and I would recommend that place for anyone. I am American, and so is everyone else (legally speaking that is)in this country. Time to stop playing the blame game, and start acting like adults.

NavyVet

"It is curious that a man who refers to this country as the "U.S. of KKK-A", managed to attend Harvard University and the University of Chicago..."

Uh-huh...And relinquishing his student deferment to serve six years in the U.S. military (Marines, 1961-63; Navy, 1963-67) during the Vietnam War...the same war that thousands of conservative Chickenhawks dodged the draft to avoid, ie, Dick Cheney (5 student deferments), Newt Gingrich, Rush Limbaugh (medical deferment for an ingrown hair on his butt), Karl Rove, John Ashcroft, Paul Wolfowitz, et al...

GK

"NavyVet,"

So, are you saying you approve of Jeremiah Wright's comments?

*crickets chirping in NavyVet's silence*

NavyVet

Nope, not at all. Just saying that you certainly have no right to judge him, since he served his country during time of war, while you chose to stay in the safety of your home, letting someone else die face down in the sand over there in your place...

GK

Phony NavyVet (a chickenterrorist),

Then by that measure, John McCain is the overwhelmingly superior candidate in this Presidential election, far and away more qualified to discuss the War than Hillary or Obama.

Admit this, by your own logic.

70% of the military votes Republican, by the way.

Plus, you still are too cowardly to answer the 3 simple questions (further proving that you are no Navy Vet) :

1) So only people who join the military can support the Iraq War? Why does that same criteria not apply to the Afghanistan War, or War in Bosnia?

2) John McCain's son actually is serving in Iraq. But he supports the War. Why?

3) Are you on America's side, or on Al-Qaeda's side?

XLiberal

Navy Vet: I obtained Conscientious Objector status during the Vietnam War era. Does that mean that I have forfeited all right to comment on matters relating to war, or to what an Armed Forces veteran such as Wright says decades after his service?


Does Wright's having been in the Armed Forces from 1961-67 mean that he gets a free pass regarding anything he says or does when in civilian life?

Does my having been a Conscientious Objector mean that I may not make a comment regarding a Guard veteran such as Bush, or a Navy veteran such as JF Kerry ?

IOW, does my having been a Conscientious Objector mean that I have forfeited my constitutional right to free speech?

GK

XLiberal,

You will find that creatures like 'NavyVet' :

a) Do not, in any way, feel compelled to address logical, simple questions posed to him, the way a normal person would. Their mind simply doesn't include the concept of an obligation to answer questions posed to them, even if the question is in response to a subject they opened.

b) Have no problem clumsily impersonating Naval Veterans, while simultaneously smearing actual Naval Veterans like John McCain.

I guarantee you will not get straight answers to your perfectly logical questions.

Jason Nichols

NavyVet,
I've recently returned from Iraq and I agree with the statements above, that not serving in a war in no way limits your free speech on the topic. Also, serving in a war does not exempt you from all judgment and responsibility. Rev. Wright was wrong to say the 3000 people who died on 9/11 deserved it, he was wrong to say racist things regarding AIDs and crack cocaine. The fact he was a Marine is not very relevant.

conradg

This issue of Wright's racial DNA seems not to take into account that one of the most prominent reasons many African-Americans have light-colored skin is that they are the product of their slave-grandmothers being raped by white slave owners. The products of those rapes were usually made into slaves as well, hence passing on the white genes within the community of African slaves. I don't think this in any way undercuts the heritage of slavery they have inherited, but merely adds to it the additional crime of rape. That might be part of the reason Wright is so angry at white men - he's the product in part of white rapists who abandoned and sold their own offspring into slavery

brokerdavelhr

XLiberal,
I have served my country for over ten years in the armed forces, and have done so for the rest of America to live freely. The fact that you are a Conscientious Objector is well within your constitutional rights, and you should exercise that right freely- after all, this is a free country. I do not personally believe the same things you do, but at the same time, that is just me exercising my freedoms :-) I am actually happy that you feel that way about war because it helps balance things out.
I must say this though- as a Conscientious Objector, you see war for the ugly, stupid thing that it is. Taking this fact into account, you will never understand that other countries definitely do not see things the same way. Throughout history you see other countries trying to bring peace to those that either do not want it, or appreciate it. This in turn causes a spread of conflict that eventually turns into what we call ‘war’. Yes it is stupid. Yes it is ignorant. Yes it is a waste. But peace is like a book. Unless you read it in it’s entirety, you will never understand it’s value. Sure you can read the preface or synopsis and get some idea as to the point- but you will never fully understand it. So the US trying to force peace upon foreign countries, is like throwing ‘War and Peace’ at a kindergartner.
Ditto for war by the way. You have not done it, therefore do not fully understand it. So yes you can comment on it all you want- but I would never elect you as my commander and chief.

brokerdavelhr

Conradg
There is no reason for Wright to be angry at ‘White Man’, plain and simple. 1- Holding a grudge goes against the religion he claims to be a head of. 2- The only reason slavery became so abundant, was the fact that many Africans would either sell their fellow countryman (which is an unknown concept to at the time was a tribal people), or help the ‘white man’ find them for a profit. As for the white slave owners raping the female slaves, yes that did happen, and yes it was wrong. But that is no excuse for an over paid, hypocrite of a ‘preacher’, to blather about the evils of white man that happened OVER 140 YEARS AGO!
Fact- Many were not for slavery, hence the civil war. So the terms ‘whitie’, ‘cracker’, or even ‘white man’ are not only racist in themselves, but also hypocritical and ignorant. Fact- you calling us ‘white man’ and not Americans, leads me to believe that you yourself are racist. Furthermore, I would bet my bottom dollar that the only discrimination you have seen yourself, if a ‘white’ person giving you a dirty look for listening to one of these hip hop artist telling you how evil the ‘white man’ man and the ‘police’ are.
Now, stop with the pretentious attitude that the ‘white man’ needs to offer reparations. If you love Africa so much, freakin go back already. Go back to the hot Sahara desert or the war torn Sudan. If you are that proud of being ‘African’, then go back! But if you enjoy the freedom, comforts, and relative peace you live in here in the US, then Welcome my fellow American .
Last of all, let me point out how pathetic Wrights attitude really is. He is a highly ‘compensated’ member of the clergy , holds a position of power in influence, and is looked up to by a great many people. SO why the f*** does he care about what happened 140 years ago? Can he go back in time and change it?! No, he is an ungrateful pathetic whiner who preys on the ignorant. If slavery had never existed in the US, he would either never have been born, or would be just another preacher. The ONLY reason he cares, is because he knows that by creating a ‘oppressed status’, and then offering words of ‘encouragement’ or a promise of recompense, that he can appeal to a large audience, and make a nice living doing so. I am no therapist, but I do believe that this is a serious condition bordering on megalomania and delusion. Not to mention just plain rotten.
Unfortunately the same thing applies for Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson, etc, etc. All supposed ‘reverends’ who chase down the evils of the world, all the while going against the same doctrine that they claim to stand for. They get tax breaks from he gov’t, get funding from the gov’t, raise hell on all sorts of jack-assery that in the end means nothing, gets donations from low to middle class people who believe that they are actually being helped and could have better spent their money elsewhere (without ever returning even a quarter of what they reaped from the poor souls), and loving every minute of it. What makes this truly sick, is the fact that hundreds and thousands are convinced that people like this are standing for what is right.
So the poor should not blame the gov’t as much as they should look to themselves for their little predicaments. Contrary to what they believe, the world does not owe them a living. If they spent half as much time in self-improvement, as they did in pointing out flaws in the gov’t and whining about events that occurred 140 years ago, and in doing so actually become productive members of society instead of leeches, then maybe, just maybe, THEY WOULD TRULY BECOME AMERICAN! The sad truth is that by blaming their woes on something else, they take the easy way out instead of doing what is right and reaping the benefits of a righteous act!

Gwen

this is kinda ridiculous...just because rev. wright shares an opinion about a country that has a somewhat violent history does not mean he is a 'victim" or playing the "victim"...a victim implies someone that lets their circumstances affect their future. Obviously rev. wright is quite successful and should definitely not be considered a victim. Another note....
does it really have to do with skin complexion people??? Did they tell Rosa Parks to sit in the middle of the bus because she was very fair skinned? NO! They told her to sit in the back and cursed, and had her arrested when she refused. Let's be real, and stop twisting everything to fit the white agenda.

GK

Gwen,

about a country that has a somewhat violent history

Show me a country that has not had a 'violent history'.

Let's be real, and stop twisting everything to fit the white agenda.

On the contrary, too many things are being twisted AGAINST white people. The author of this blog is not white, you know.


Genealogy Research

Not following the comment-war, but just wanted to say that Wright looks very white, although oddly enough I had never noticed it before. My son has darker skin than he does, and my son is only half Hispanic / half white.

Alex

Wright's light skin tone does not necessarily mean he's less than half black. Soledad O'Brien, for instance, has a black mother, and she looks much whiter than Mr. Wright.

http://www.hbasonline.org/attachments/wysiwyg/6/15786_Soledad-O_Brien.jpg

I hate Wright and am not trying to defend him, but nevertheless.

M.

Americans can hardly understand one can be more than 50% genetically white and still have some black people's features...or he may look as white as any other one in spite of having a black parent or grandparent. It is strange to be either black or white when there are some brown or tan variations in between (like Halle Berry). Some people are not just either black or white. Simple! Just mix coffee and milk and you will see what I mean.

Bob Geee

I follow politics far more than most but never noticed till tonight, that Rev Wright ain't black!!!! He Is not black!!!!

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