« The Publishing Disruption | Main | The Carnival of Creative Destruction »

Comments

The Futurist

Engineer,

I find it odd that you mention white males

Where did I mention 'white males'?

Also, like Roissy, for some reason you mention the politically left and feminism as if it were part of the same group.

For the most part, yes, since 'feminism' is impossible without a very large, expensive police state. While everyone who expands the state is not a feminist, the quickest way to cut down feminism is to shrink the state.

However, note that I also slam conservatives for their white-knighting chivalry that is obsolete, and does more harm than good.

I am a 28 year old chronically single black male

Have you tried looking into Game (the Venusian Arts)? Do you know about Obsidian? He can help you.

Stick around, and I look forward to your forthcoming comments.

JohnSilver

I'm a fairly young man, and I have proudly NEVER treated any woman, besides my "romantic partner" (both disagree with marriage for the same reasons you mentioned) with any special treatment. I treat them exactly the same as I would if it was a man. This has infuriated them, and some to shocking extents. They think that just because they can flout their sexuality means that I care?

I really enjoyed this article, and managed to click on every link. This subject has bothered me since I was young (I think it started with the sexism in schools). I'm glad some men have thought, and researched thoroughly on, this blatantly obvious issue which our culture faces today.

Chris

This should be mandatory reading for all members of the western civilization

Natalie

It is funny how narrow minded most articles on misandry are.
It is convenient for men in developed countries to beat their chest and cmplain about misandry.
They forget all the other countries that are still developing where women are trafficked, raped, punished for been widowed and have no rights r not recognised in the laws.

If a deeper study was taken to understand the meaning of equity instead of equality it would help most people understand what is going on, equity is not about taking a bag of potatoes and sharing it 50:50, it is recognising that the investment banker can afford 30% and the janitor needs 70% because it will probably take him a longer time to afford another bag of potatoes.
If you think women are stronger,lol look at movies, even at cosmopolitan, half of the articles are about being able to catch a man and tricks you can try in bed to please your man. Movies are all about sexy females in skin tight suits that are sexy, strong and in the end dependent on the male hero figure (lol like I can be sexy in heels, keep my medical job and find time to manage a family with a "Tony Stark" figure.

The important questions are not about alimony or who commits more adultery or how men cheat more than women or the opposite.
For me, I want a future where my daughter will know that her worth was not in how early she married, how many children or how long she stayed married but in her ability to contribute to society in anyway she chose as an individual, as a human being first. The same for my son, I do not want him to ever rate his worth by how good a provider he is or "machismo".
The writer even shows his biased views by showing a table which shows that a feminist like me will have no chance in hell to have a child,lol. Poor guy, if you only knew the truth, most of the happily married women I know are feminists, they might not have married early but they are 30 years into it, still working and fighting with their men by their sides(and this is in a developing country in Africa!)

I am a feminist, but I love the men in my life, my friends, my boyfriend and my father figures. I realise their weakness and are grateful for their strenghts. I am grateful that I have a relationship were there is no "head" where we both know when to step back and let the other lead.
For as long as man retains his individuality, there will never be a world where any sex will always dominate.
It is even evidenced by remarks on this blog where "modern women" make remarks to wishing things were the same like in the "good old days" where women's roles were clearly defined and relegated to house hold chores,lol.

What I see in this misandry movement is fear and I can understand that, things are beginning to change and societal norms are changing. For women we know we are expected to be stronger but for men, their roles are not so clear.
It is terrifying for most of them.
feminist voices are not all about misandry, the same way it will be a grave injustice to quote that all men are sexists and rapists.

We can quote statistics and talk about laws localised to one country but until a man can live the life of women in developing countries in Africa or Asia where your legs can be pried apart and you can be cut for no reason than culture, where rape is a form of punishment, where you are beaten to death and there is no one to protect you,where you are worth nothing till you are linked to a man.
Then you can come back and talk about misandry and I will listen

The Futurist

Natalie,

They forget all the other countries that are still developing where women are trafficked, raped, punished for been widowed and have no rights r not recognised in the laws.

This is not forgotten at all. It is you, in fact, that conveniently ignores that comparably bad things are being done to MEN in the US today.

When you express concern for the mistreatment of men, then I might consider you to be a fair thinker.

The writer even shows his biased views

Projection, since your claims are already debunked in the article, yet you predictable avoided that.

Poor guy, if you only knew the truth, most of the happily married women I know are feminists,

You are using the 1950s version of the word 'feminist'. Not a peep from you about how anti-male so many laws are is either ignorant or malevolent on your part (or both).

feminist voices are not all about misandry,

Nowadays, about 90% of them are. This is heavily supported by research in the article.

Then you can come back and talk about misandry and I will listen

Your 'listening' or not is not of value. You predictably cannot address the misandry against men in the US, which many women are in fact speaking out against (see linked sources). You have steered clear of any of the points in the article, instead taking the lazy route of not taking any responsibility for your own goals, but rather want to pass judgement on others from a pseudomoral, self-appointed pedestal.

You are about 50 years behind the times, Natalie. What you think is 'advanced' is like someone from 1960 lauding the progress made since 1910 by 1960.

Kursch

The Futurist,

An excellent article. As a "beta" male, I find American women nearly impossible to deal with, and have virtually no incentive to get married. Globalization has provided me with alternatives that make American women increasingly irrelevant to my overall happiness. Many women will no doubt label me a "loser" for looking elsewhere, but given my track record I don't feel I have much of a choice.

I sincerely hope you are correct about the Misandry Bubble, but I am not optimistic.

The Futurist

Kursch,

Thanks.

An excellent article. As a "beta" male, I find American women nearly impossible to deal with,

The Venusian Arts were created and refined to overcome this. But even that also works on foreign women just as well.

Check it out. You will see quick jumps in your level of success.

Gary

"The default natural solution is for the misandric society to be outcompeted and displaced."

Exactly correct, and that is exactly what will take place in the US and European countries. There is no other path. If anything, you are guilty of understatement in this remarkable summation.

Unfortunately, the inane practice of "Game" as referred to in relations with the "liberated" female will only accelerate the process. More long term success could achieved in picking up a a rattlesnake. Any "game" can and will end in catastrophe with those three little words, "He raped me."

With the traditional gender roles reversed and no prospect of a return to the so called traditional arrangement, decline, fall and disintegration is inevitable.

As for moving to India-sounds like a prudent plan in light of the gathering storm.

The Futurist

Gary,

Any "game" can and will end in catastrophe with those three little words, "He raped me."

Well, no, because Game makes the woman actually attracted to the man. The absence of Game is what leads to a false accusation.

So far, no one of prominence in the Game community has been accused of anything yet. This includes PUAs who have bedded hundreds of women (not that I recommend that), and are publicly known to be PUAs.

As for moving to India-sounds like a prudent plan in light of the gathering storm.

Perhaps. India today is where America was in 1950, so the 'golden age' is to come, whereas in America, it has passed.

The Futurist

Curious,

I addressed your 'points' many times over. You just don't like being schooled and can't admit that you were outclassed. Read what I wrote again - that is your answer.

The core of your irrational hysteria is the claim that :
a) A place with a rapidly declining population is economically booming.
b) Men want marriage much more than women, despite overwhelming evidence out in the real world.

Both of these points, and the others, were debunked completely.

I think I will follow commenter Jeffsquire's advice about not encouraging imbalanced people like Curious.

The End.

Savethemales

I have read your articles and all comments. I want to introduce myself and mention robogirls as an important factor in the decline of feminism. You might find some of the facts below useful to add to your article. I have posted the below elsewhere. Everyone, feel free to promote robogirls. The sooner men have this option and alternative, the sooner they will ditch man hating feminists and the sooner feminism will decline. Any predictions(2030?)/questions on what I posted below?

Hello everyone! I am a male in my late 20s with no luck finding a nice woman. I now believe it's not me, but those women and their unrealistic expectations. After reading blogs and comments, I am surprised and amazed that many men share my sentiments, beliefs and views. They also have no luck finding Mrs. right. Sure they may have luck dating women but find those women aren't their type and unsuitable for a long term relationship or marriage.

Millions of men are currently on marriage strike in my country. Other men are importing foreign brides into his country or expating to their countries. Marriage laws are much more fair to men's rights in other countries. The women, unaffected by feminism are prettier, smarter and respectful to men.

Feminism has ruined it for Americans(and several other developed countries) Women and men are equal, but different. Feminism has caused women to want to be like men and compete with men instead of complete men. Worse, feminists are full of misandry and men blaming/hating. They want to be superior to men and have all the rights while stripping men of their rights.

Already, women can make false allegations and have him arrested and assumed guilty till proven innocent. Some women falsely accuse men of rape for various reasons, such as regretting the sex or a desire to punish him for nagging her for sex. I know several men who have chosen to be celibate to protect themselves and their rights. Millions of men are looking for Mrs. Right. This is where robogirls come in.

From my research, year 2030 is a good timeframe when robots will be nearly or equally as "smart" as humans. Technology 20 years from now will be over a thousand times better/faster. I can forsee robots being everywhere in our lives and helping us with all sorts of tasks as well as being our companions.

A robogirl could have different programs("brains") installed for different duties. There can be programs such as teacher, nurse, guard, chef, maid, lover, mother, driver, pilot, scientist, etc. The possibilities are nearly unlimited! You can also choose the appearance of your robogirl per your own standards of what ideal beauty constitutes.

A low end robogirl may cost perhaps $10,000 but not look very realistic and come with limited memory and features. A midrange model will of course be better for $30,000 while a high end model at over $100,000 will look and act like a human. As technology improves, in 7-10 years, even a low end robogirl will be as good or better than a high end model of 2030. Some of us don't want to wait this long and have saved our $100,000+

There's so many advantages to a robogirl over a human, it's funny. Once you accept the fact your girlfriend isn't quite human, you will have a perfect relationship. Everything will be on your own terms/desires as long as it's legal and does not harm you or other humans. Imagine all the cuddles, kisses and even sex you want! No worries about STDs, pregnancy, cheating, false rapes, etc!

There's some downsides. Criminals will write their own programs and even design their own robothugs to do their evil biddings for them. You will see tons of robocops/roboguards being created for your own and other's protection/security. When robot costs become cheap enough, every person will have their own robot for one reason or another, be it as a guard, maid, companion and/or lover.

Besides robogirls, there will be roboguys and animal robots as pets and zoo exhibants. Just like having your perfect girl/guy, you can have your perfect pet. No worries about feeding, pooing, barking all night, biting, allergies, parasites, diseases, etc. The cost will be about a tenth of a robogirl. My sister has always wanted a dog but isn't allowed to have one. This will change when she buys a robodog oneday.

Right now, robogirls are a tiny niche market and can do little more than sexually satisfy horny, lonely men. I admire the fact they are early pioneers which will pave the way for the future. They are also having much safer sex than those fools who end up with diseases, getting her pregnant or going to prison because she "decided" it was rape. I don't need/want sex and am waiting for robots to advance further.

Nice guys like me want love, even if it's simulated, it's better than fake love. I don't believe in love after seeing over half of marriages fail and often for stupid reasons such as lust/greed. I also never want to marry in my country and probably won't go the trouble of moving half way around the world just to marry. That's if I can even find Mrs. Right anywhere. Too many men(and women!) settle for the wrong person.

Reading the comments when doing Google searches for "robot girlfriend" lots of men are positive about the concept and some will even put this in action. They can see the high divorce rate, inability to find Mrs. Right and want instant gratification. Women on the other hand are negative about robogirls because they feel threatened and know they can't compete. Why not get your own roboguy for companionship?

Perhaps those women aren't interested because they want a man to use for his money and today's current misandry laws allow just that. Marriage is to her advantage and she can divorce for any reason and take his children, house, alimony and half his money. Can't do that with a roboguy and itll even cost her thousands to buy one. My friend says women would rather share an alpha man than be with a roboguy.

I guess there will be plenty of women for beta men to choose for those who insist on a human. There are men who are saying men will start regaining their rights and feminism/misandry will be on the decline in an attempt to get more men to want to be with women instead of robogirls. I honestly don't think women are bad, it's the corrupt laws that are the root of the problem. Men have abused the same laws when they favored men over women.

I do see robogirls benefitting women in some ways. They can replace prostitutes, pornstars, strippers, etc, letting women get respectable jobs instead. Robogirls will give horny men their sexual outlet and liberate women from being taken advantage of by those men. Many men will choose robogirls over women, especially for sex as it's far safer and the robogirl can be a perfect "10" in beauty.

In my closing remarks, robots will change the world and mostly for the better. Us nerds will be the pioneers with more and more people joining in. Each of us will have our own reasons for wanting robots, it's not always about sex, as in my case. I want nothing to do with sex and my robogirl won't even have a vagina/anus. She will be pure, sweet, innocent, intelligant, beautiful, everything I want in a woman.

The Futurist

Savethemales,

I don't quite agree with your post.

a) A man who learns the Venusian Arts can quickly do quite well with women. Too many men refuse to accept this, because they can't take responsibility for their own destiny.

b) I don't think sexbots will have much appeal. The concept is creepy. 3-D/VR will be far more practical for most men.

Savethemales

Ive learned so much from your wonderful articles. The 20% who master the VA are known as alpha men. The other 80% will need 3-D/VR as you say. What I was thinking, wouldn't robogirls be much more "real" than a computer game or VR? He would be able to feel, cuddle/hug/hold and kiss the robogirl(something I want, something VR can't achieve, or can it? If so, when?). Alot of men want more than only sex. I pointed out in my article above all the things robots can do, including be a maid, nurse and cook which would serve and benefit those men.

You are an expert on future predictions, wouldn't you say that robots will match humans in intelligence sometime in 2025-2030? If so, wouldn't they be able to do almost anything humans can do, including take over most of their jobs? Ive been talking about robots and robogirls alot lately. I made many good points in the long comments above this one which I also posted elsewhere. Me and you know well that the women will find it "creepy" and attempt to shame men away from robots, VR and porn.

The Futurist

Savethemales,

80% of men cannot grasp why VA works. But once you become a man grasps *why* it works, then you are part of the 20%. The hard work to build expertise lies ahead from that point.

wouldn't you say that robots will match humans in intelligence sometime in 2025-2030?

In some ways yes, and others, no. Remember, you don't want women to get a male robot that can be a substitute either (although the 'status' component of female attraction means technology can never replace men the way it can replace women, sexually).

I am not sure that a robot can provide the emotional connection. 3-D/VR also can't, but it is not supposed to in the first place. It is meant to be a recreational diversion that uses up a man's time.

Women will use shaming language for everything, including a request for a pre-nup. A man should not be affected by this. In fact, a man's resistance to this makes him more attractive to the woman in question (again, see VA).

Elisabeth K

You're misinterpreting the statistics GK.

Assuming everything that was said is fact:

70% of divorces are filed by women. 30% of divorces are filed by men.

If 60% of the female filed divorces are filed due to adultery, that would mean that 42% of all divorces (60% of 70) are filed by women due to the actions of the husband.

SO:

42% - female files, male's fault (he cheated)
28% - female files, female's fault (no adultery)
20% - male files, female's fault (she cheated)
10% - male files, male's fault (no adultery)

So by your logic of "divorce because of adultery is the fault of the adulterer" that would mean:

52% - male's fault
48% - female's fault

You can't say that female adultery is the female's fault even if the male files then say that male adultery is still the female's fault because she filed.

The Futurist

Elisabeth,

There are many flaws in your comment.

If 60% of the female filed divorces are filed due to adultery,

Source? In fact, women file for divorce for no reason other than that the man 'was not fun anymore'.

So by your logic of "divorce because of adultery is the fault of the adulterer"

But the woman getting bored is still the main reason she files, rather than the man committing adultery.

Women commit adultery just as often as men, but women don't suffer the consequences of it the way men do.

Furthermore, given the very different nature of male and female sexuality, a solid case can be made that a female cheating is far worse than a male cheating (the pregnancy factor, for starters), but we don't even need to go down that route to show you that your comment is flawed.

Now, if you actually consider yourself to be fair, then you should attack the fact that the man pays even if the woman cheats. The person who did the wrongdoing should pay, rather than the current law of 'the man pays even if he is the victim'.

Zac

is the Marriage Strike real? I live in Canada, as a dual citizen I plan on moving to the USA when I finish my MBA. I havent lived there since I was a Child. Im 30 years old

I see it talked about alot but is it reality? theory is one thing , but in practice? do men collectivley in the USA avoid marriage and having kids?

great article by the way

please clarify

The Futurist

Zac,

A marriage strike involves just about 20% of single men not marrying. Thus, even if 80% of men want to marry, there are too few o them to go around, and the competition among women becomes extremely fierce and stressful, as only 8 out of 10 will have husbands when the music stops.

So even if you see a lot of weddings, and most of the guys your age marrying, that is part of the 80%. The other 20% who *could* marry, but choose not to, are having a very big impact on the prospects of women for marriage.

So yes, a marriage strike of 20% of men who could marry, choosing not to, is definitely happening. Women react to this by being more aggressive, proactive, and desperate (which you may have noticed).

Zac

I see allot of cougars in 30+ category( in the gym especially) and all my friends already have had failed marriages before 30 or in their early 30's none wish to get married again. it's amazing that the numbers are not higher with the laws rigged the way they are.

I see allot of them either waiting for perfection as they call it, or thinking they are way hotter than they are ,especially the cougs, or just becoming used up, its one of the three

I often wondered if it was in the bloggers heads

gay hitler

hahhahgha shit this is the funniest article i ever read

Max

An amazing article, well researched and thorough which is spot on about the current situation. Should be required reading for anyone, male or female thinking about their future, especially if they are approaching marrying age. First thing, it’s interesting to see the women posting here; I’ve seen this pattern unfold on many a topic like this in the past. A small amount of responsible women who intelligently comment on the subject and see it for what it really is (I applaud the few responsible women who commented, you are in very short supply.), and then a much larger amount who attack, most likely out of fear of what they realize is true but don’t want to face.
That’s the thing, it is true and all one has to do is look around and see the effects, even in your own city. At my stepsons grade 8 graduation, the valedictorians where two girls. The awards for the highest marks, once more, two girls. Matter of fact, on Facebook, a buddy of mine proudly stated how his daughter was a valedictorian as well at another school. What award did any of the boys receive besides athleticism, (which a boy and a girl won)? Spirit, this was a Catholic school, and he was the best believer in the school, cause this is where the money is, right? As for the staff, this school goes from Kindergarten to 8th grade with 20+ teachers on staff. Only 3 where male…3.

Am I for uneducated women? Heck no, education is key for success and I’m glad for education being available for everyone, however, the school system has long become feminized and are teaching in a manner conducive for females, not for males. And of course, once these highly educated women graduate, this is where we see the issue, women marry up. Women seek a man who is at the very least equal but preferably greater than they so before we even get into the financial side of things, most women won’t be satisfied being a college grad having to date a high school grad. One of the biggest things that mystified me whenever I attended a school function there was the amount of Miss’s compared to older Mrs.’s on the faculty. I really had to wonder about that fact until I started reading sites like these. Currently for every 100 grads, 60% are female; I really wonder what it will be like in even 5 years.

As for the Ghettofying of the West? Absolutely, due to the feminized school system, and the devaluing of men in the family, is it any wonder why more and more men are becoming so immature? The Futurist is absolutely correct, the black community is the Canary in the mineshaft for the rest of society and smart people need to take heed, calling people here misogynist won’t make this fact go away, no matter how much you want it to. Ever wonder why black women get so pissed when an ambitious black man is seen with a woman of any other race, particularly white? It’s due to the vast amount of underachieving black men. Ambitious black men are rare, so when one is scooped up, it leaves one less for these women, leaving them with the dregs. As a Black man living in Canada, I’ve personally seen these frustrations myself as women even comment on my choice of partner, as if I owe them something.

Sorry ladies, no matter your race, a single man owes you nothing whatsoever, and that is why I think women get so scared at articles like this. The majority of their power comes from a ring on their finger, and if one isn’t forthcoming, panic ensues. In a MacLean’s article I read about first time fathers attending baby prep classes and one of the enrollees was actually a 50-year-old man. Maybe it was stupidity on his part, maybe he was roped into it, who knows, but the truth is it’s still a choice men have even at that age while women (save women with lots of money) have no choice. At the end of the day, I really think most women save the responsible ones are frightened by the very real fact that a 45 year old single woman has nothing to offer a 45 year old single man, while the reverse doesn’t hold so true.

I’ve got a buddy whose currently dating and even though he has never been on an MRA site, he still seems to have a good head on his shoulders and knows quite a bit about this subject matter. He is shocked as to how many 30+ women are single and dating and literally look at him like a piece of meat. He had told me that some of them act almost as if they literally hear their biological clocks ringing everywhere they go, the desperation written all over them even on a first date. He’s having a blast at the moment, dating one and simply moving on if she proves to be too possessive. He realizes now that he is the one who can be picky, not them.
As for being productive, a guy I work with has been divorced for some time. He pays his support and his alimony and has just paid off his numerous bills. He lives in an apartment, drives a 15-year-old car, doesn't have a credit card and is completely fine with that. Thanks to feminism’s teaching’s about being promiscuous, he has no issue finding Miss Right-now (and quite a few of them too) and has absolutely no desire to ever find another Miss Right.

I had always thought that feminism was going to burn out with women consolidating so much power that men wouldn’t want to marry and with men retreating from schools leaving women with less suitable partners, I was sure that was it. The Futurist covered all the topics in explicit detail and revealed the economic issues that most may not consider. Like all bubbles, this will indeed pop, and the fallout will be something to behold. I'm even noticing that on other blogs, some people can smell the upcoming paradigm shift. Make no mistake, the pendulum is going to swing again.

The Futurist, I have a question which you may be able to shed some light.

1) What about the average woman’s psyche allows for such shortsightedness? I mean, I know that as humans, we aren’t 100% logical but I can’t get my mind around how the feminist movement shoots itself in the foot like it does. Women want men who are more educated, and make more money so how does it make any sense to bar men from education and make Campuses so unfriendly? We can see this terminal pattern in pretty much every facet in the feminist agenda, a short term win which only tightens the noose on their neck in the long run, why do they do it?

The Futurist

Max,

Welcome! Thanks for the detailed comment.

1) What about the average woman’s psyche allows for such shortsightedness?

Just like most men are very poor at understanding social nuances that women navigate quite naturally....

....Most women have very little ability to grasp cause and effect, or supply and demand. They are the equals of 8-year-old boys in this regard.

As an experiment, take any cause-and-effect case scenario, and try to ask a woman to walk through the step-by-step process of comprehending a likely sequence of events. Try a Socratic 'so what would happen if' method...

You will be surprised at the difficulty they have with this. Try it and see.

Being a black man in Canada must be a unique experience, given that they comprise only 2% of the population there. Black women there, in addition to the ratio problem faced in the US, have the added problem of too few numbers. There might be only 20 candidate black men within a city that the black woman lives in. How to even find them?

Max

Thank you for the quick reply.

“As an experiment, take any cause-and-effect case scenario, and try to ask a woman to walk through the step-by-step process of comprehending a likely sequence of events. Try a Socratic 'so what would happen if' method...
You will be surprised at the difficulty they have with this. Try it and see.”


I will give this a go; I already have a suspicion as to how this will pan out. My wife is more responsible than most women I encounter and we had a discussion about this very topic not too long ago. It was then that I realized that even my reasonable wife was a victim of solipsism to some degree. When we discussed the major purchases in the house (such as furniture and that) she didn’t even realize that it was I who had purchased them simply for the reason that she wanted them. She was surprised that men could exist so simply and anything we do purchase is for our families.

Your point also seems to explain why there is such a short supply of responsible women. I’ve noticed that when I try to explain to women why this behavior is detrimental to not just men, but them too, they don’t seem to understand, usually trying to place the blame back on men for this or that. Sometimes, speaking to women who hate male chauvinism but then they turn around and are dismissive of men and their contributions to family, actually being worse than the chauvinists they despise. I’ve given up trying to explain to women that this is a disaster waiting to happen, and as my mother would say, ‘those who don’t hear will feel.’ It is a crying shame that it will have to get to that point, but to me it seems unavoidable.

“Being a black man in Canada must be a unique experience, given that they comprise only 2% of the population there. Black women there, in addition to the ratio problem faced in the US, have the added problem of too few numbers. There might be only 20 candidate black men within a city that the black woman lives in. How to even find them?”

And with that statement, you add more proof to your article. I happen to live relatively close to Metro Toronto, so it isn’t too hard to find black people. On average though, the amount of interracial couples present is actually very large. In just my family alone, my brother, three male cousins, and myself all married interracial. Only one female cousin married a black man. I see much more evidence even on Facebook that many of the black friends that I grew up with have followed suit as well. However, 2% of the population, this is such a disturbing fact to consider when one watches the news and everyday you see another crime committed by yet one more black person. It has gotten to the point that my mother doesn’t like watching the news; it bothers her to see so many blacks breaking the law. 2% of the population, I’ll be honest, I wouldn’t have considered the black representation to be that low myself.

The Futurist

Max,

Your point also seems to explain why there is such a short supply of responsible women.

Unmarried women (and sometimes even married women) will use the voting process to aggessively strip men of rights, far more so than men have any desire to do to women. This is the root of many, if not most, troubles in society today.

Sometimes, speaking to women who hate male chauvinism but then they turn around and are dismissive of men and their contributions to family

For every man who is really a misogynist, there are 10,000 men who conduct the opposite of misogyny - pedestalization. Remember that. Pedestalization is vastly more common than actual misogyny. Thus, women who accuse men of misogyny are actually projecting their own misandry outwards.

I checked on Wikipedia, and Toronto is about 8.4% black, so there is certainly enough for a sizable community there. But outside of Toronto, the rest of Canada probably is less than 1% black. In Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, etc. a black woman would have little to no chance of meeting, let alone marrying, an acceptable black man.

In just my family alone, my brother, three male cousins, and myself all married interracial. Only one female cousin married a black man.

So of 6 black men (including your cousin's husband), five married non-black women, and only one married a black woman. Conversely, it would interesting to see how many black women you know, who are over 35, and alone..

A similar thing happens in the Indian community, but in different ways.

Have you been to Obsidian's blog, by chance?
http://theobsidianfiles.wordpress.com

Chris from Canada

Just finished reading the original article, most of the links, and VI's 'dissection' (in other words, a second reading of the article).

I've read up on or at least was familiar with most of the subjects brought up, but I've never seen them all in one place and integrated so well.

I've also been convinced to at least take a deeper look into Game - not so much as a tool to pursue women, but as one to make my everyday interactions with women go more smoothly. At my place of work, most of my co-workers are women so learning some female psychology would likely be invaluable.

I'd read about the current gyno-centric society collapsing under it's own weight from forums like the-niceguy.com, but they were fairly old posts, as in "pre-recession". They didn't take into account the "mancession" that hit a few years later or that part of the bubble collapsing would be the loss of a lot of public-sector jobs (aka jobs where women are better represented).

@savethemales
This is something for beta males to look forward to, and does have distinct advantages over VR (namely, an actual physical presence).
What's more, since it's likely VR will have perfected the art of creating a software based "Artifical Girlfriend" before the physical form is at the same level, it will likely be a simple matter of porting to the hardware.

However, in the greater context of the article, I don't think it has much relevance, only because it's a prediction of the next decade. I don't believe 'personal care robots' with the physical dexterity required will be commercially viable before the end of the decade.

For those familiar with anime, "Chobits" is unlikely to become a reality within the next 10 years.

Then again, Japan is making leaps and bounds in this area - both in the robotics field and in "girlfriend simulation" games. It's not entirely off-base to assume something fitting the definition of a gynoid will exist by 2020 - It's just that I don't think it will be capable of much (especially when compared to cost).


Other then the couple of trolls, or the odd woman that posts half her life story with little bearing to the subject matter, the comments have been surprisingly intelligent and well written.

About VI - I think she (I'll just used she since it's too tiring using both pronouns) was dismissed a little too aggressively. Likely because she was quite aggressive in proving her points as well.
Reading through her dissection actually does balance out the article somewhat, although there's a tendency to push her own agenda (that being transhumanist philosophy and the abolishment of gender norms entirely). Which isn't necessarily bad. She's right in that the biological technologies required for people to a completely change gender are approaching, although not before the end of the decade.

Curious on the other hand seems more intent on arguing over a couple points repeatedly then to actually further discussion in anyway.


Anyway, now that I've discovered this blog, I'll try catching up on some of your other articles.

Thanks for the read Futurist. I'll make sure to pass the link to this article over to trustworthy males.

The Futurist

Chris from Canada,

Thanks. Max (above) is from Canada too - it seems that the number of Canadian men who can relate is a bit disproportionately high.

Transhumanism will certainly let people change their gender, but I maintain that under 1% of people have any desire whatsoever to do so.

Valkyrie Ice could have made his points without a ceaseless 'misogynist, misogynist, misogynist' tirade. Note that comments here are only a fraction of what he has written - even months later, he is still conducting a screaming jihad against the concepts described here.

Squared

Brilliant article. By far the most comprehensive piece that has been written on the subject to date. Very, very well done.

For what it's worth, like the last few of commentators, I too am from Canada (Montreal, more specifically), and while I can't speak for the rest of the country, I can assure you that the province of Quebec is an absolute beacon of feminist ideology. The social ills you speak of are not only quite well represented here, they are amplified. While feminism is definitely largely to blame, I suspect a part of that has to do with the province's history as well, to be fair.

I don't know if it necessarily belongs in your article, but I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on the legalization and subsequent, eventual destigmatization of prostitution in western society. I've always felt that regardless of one's opinion on the practice, a legal, regulated and destigmatized prostitution industry would go a long way towards curing a number of ailments that currently plague society, the most important of which would be restoring the balance of sexual power between the genders. By effectively putting a fixed price on the supply, males would find themselves with a greater range of choices. Could you imagine female entitlement attitudes then? Not only would women have a much slimmer pool of prospects to pick from, they would literally have to improve their behavior over night, or face the risk of losing out to prostitutes. The paradigm shift would be absolutely enormous, at least in theory. Thoughts?

Zachriel

The Futurist: top 1% of earners pay 40% of all taxes

Assuming your are referring to the United States, that is incorrect. That figure is probably meant to represent Federal Income Tax, but leaves out state income tax, payroll taxes, property tax, sales tax, etc. The top 1% of Americans have about 35% of the net worth, and about 20% of the taxable income (with the wealthy usually having far more available deductions). If you include payroll taxes, then the federal tax burden for most Americans is roughly comparable.

On a side-note, U.S. citizens are woefully underfunding their level of services.

The Futurist

Zachriel,

At the US Federal level, 1% of households pay 40% of all taxes.

In states like CA and NY, the brackets are so progressive that the top 1% pay 50%.

Social security and sales taxes are regressive, yes, but it is also true that 51% of US adults pay no payroll income tax.

On a side-note, U.S. citizens are woefully underfunding their level of services.

I fully agree. Services should be cut to a level of expense 10% below the current tax revenues (in other words, all post-1960 programs should be eliminated), and then taxes should be cut 10%. In other words, a 30% cut in services spending, and a 10% cut in taxes.

We then have a balanced budget of taxes against service expenditures.

Savethemales

Chris and others, please check the thread I made a month ago. Im surprised those men aren't terribly excited. I have explained my stance based on facts, logic and predictions other futurists have made.

Ill be sure to give VR a shot in the next several years as I have nothing better as im a MGTOW and want nothing to do with women for obvious reasons. Any predictions what percentage of men will go for VR? Robogirls? When will feminism peak and begin to decline(timeframe range) when will feminism be completely gone? What about feminism in other countries? Any questions, ask me!

link:

http://antimisandry.com/chit-chat-main/whats-your-take-robogirls-2030-could-kill-off-feminism-31309.html

neil

bleh is a woman. mra justify rape indeed.

Zachriel

The Futurist: Social security and sales taxes are regressive, yes, ...

While the rich also pay lower rates on capital gains and inheritane, which can represent large amounts of their income.

The Futurist: but it is also true that 51% of US adults pay no payroll income tax.

True, but irrelevant to the federal tax burden.

The Futurist: At the US Federal level, 1% of households pay 40% of all taxes.

The effective tax rate is the appropriate measure. According to the CBO, in 2005, the effective federal tax rate averaged 20%. It ranged from 31% for the top 1%, 25% for the top quintile, then 17%, 14%, 10% and 4% for the other quintiles. Notice that nearly everybody, except the poorest, do share significantly in the federal tax burden. Meanwhile, on the local level, the poor have a higher burden of sales tax, while the rich have a higher burden of property taxes.

The Futurist: In other words, a 30% cut in services spending, and a 10% cut in taxes.

Of course much of the current deficit is due to the economic debacle of the Bush years, but instead of being vague, you might want to be specific. How much do you intend to cut Social Security, Medicare and Defense (which represent a majority of federal spending)?

The Futurist

Zachriel,

An obsession with 'taxing the rich' never works, because they simply go elsewhere. At any rate, socialism is much more rigged in favor of the super-rich than capitalism is.

It ranged from 31% for the top 1%, 25% for the top quintile, then 17%, 14%, 10% and 4% for the other quintiles.

That is already far too progressive.

Of course much of the current deficit is due to the economic debacle of the Bush years,

Actually, it isn't. It is due to demographic changes, many of which are due to feminism and/or socialism. Somehow, I suspect you don't want spending to reduce back to what it was during the Clinton years. I am perfectly happy to go back to Clinton-era tax rates if we go back to Clinton-era spending levels.

How much do you intend to cut Social Security, Medicare and Defense (which represent a majority of federal spending)?

SS should be indexed to life expectancy and be less generous (no spousal benefit, etc). Medicare should be phased out. People have to be responsible for saving for their own old age. Defense is a much smaller component, so it can remain as is, except for a closure of bases in Europe and Japan.

A 30% cut in spending + a 10% cut in taxes = Everything is better.

I know you won't agree, but this will inevitably be the end result anyway once the budget breaks, and the US tax structure starts to make it more and more uncompetitive with other countries (which itself shrinks the tax base further).

Zachriel

The Futurist: That is already far too progressive.

Progressive taxation is one of the primary mechanisms of regulating boom-and-bust cycles. As the U.S. just experienced a bubble-collapse, your statement appears to be in error.

Zachriel: Of course much of the current deficit is due to the economic debacle of the Bush years ...

The Futurist: Actually, it isn't. It is due to demographic changes, many of which are due to feminism and/or socialism.

"Feminism and/or socialism" didn't suddenly take over after the Clinton Administration. There was a budget surplus at that time. There is absolutely no reason the U.S. can't put its house in order once the crisis ends, though it will take a combination of cuts and taxes.

The Futurist: SS should be indexed to life expectancy and be less generous (no spousal benefit, etc). Medicare should be phased out. People have to be responsible for saving for their own old age.

Turns out that many people who did save, who are now retiring, saw their savings wiped out, and have to rely on Social Security and Medicare as a minimum social safety net.

The Futurist: I know you won't agree, but this will inevitably be the end result anyway once the budget breaks, and the US tax structure starts to make it more and more uncompetitive with other countries (which itself shrinks the tax base further).

As the budget was in balance just a few years ago, there is no reason to believe the problems are insurmountable. The U.S. is still highly attractive compared to most other developed economies, though their recent missteps leading to the economic debacle have led investors to begin to hedge somewhat.

The Futurist

your statement appears to be in error.

Assertion does not make your point true. The US is far too progressive in its tax rate, more so than any other OECD country.

though it will take a combination of cuts and taxes.

Rather, a 30% spending cut and 10% tax cut.

Turns out that many people who did save, who are now retiring, saw their savings wiped out, and have to rely on Social Security and Medicare as a minimum social safety net.

If they speculate with their savings, that is their fault. They would not have speculated if not for the perceived safety net, so you have cause and effect reverse.

Taxing the rich to save the foolish is neither moral nor effective. SS and Medicare do more harm than good.

As the budget was in balance just a few years ago, there is no reason to believe the problems are insurmountable.

Yes. Cut spending 30% and taxes by 10%.

Zachriel

The Futurist: The US is far too progressive in its tax rate, more so than any other OECD country.

You're probably referring to the OECD report. The progressivity of the U.S. tax rate when compared to other OECD countries in isolation is skewed because other OECD countries primarily use direct transfers, including more for healthcare and education. When accounting for these differences, the U.S. is far from being overly progressive in comparison. (And even more so if you account for the gross U.S. overpayment for basic, non-universal healthcare.)

The Futurist: If they speculate with their savings, that is their fault.

Safe investments lost a great deal, even for savvy investors. On the other hand, some people have always been poor and couldn't save. Some had illness in the family and lost their savings. Some owned businesses and lost them in the economic downturn. Still others simply made mistakes.

There are two types of systems. The type where people have a basic safety net, found in all developed economies, and your type.

The Futurist: Cut spending 30% and taxes by 10%.

Which means cutting the social security checks and medical benefits of the elderly poor, so that you can have a tax cut. Bully for you!

Zac

First 3d porn film starts today, looks like technology is underway hmmmm 2020

http://www.tgdaily.com/games-and-entertainment-brief/50994-worlds-first-3d-porn-movie-begins-filming

Savethemales

Someone thinks feminism could last another thousand years! Ive shown him this article and he read it. I think he doesn't understand all your predictions which are based on fact. I personally believe the VR/robogirl technology is the biggest of the four horsemen, do you?

1. Any predictions what percentage of men will go for VR? Robogirls? This is getting discussed alot on a men's right's forum.

2. When will feminism peak and begin to decline? When will feminism be completely gone? What about feminism in other countries? What's the shortest, average and longest number of years for this to happen?

3. What will America be like once feminism begins to decline? Once it's gone? Will men regain their rights that they lost and/or will women lose their rights?

Thanks for your time, anyone can address the above questions.

Max

Been a while since I’ve been here; the comments section of an article I find is usually the most intriguing. Just read some of the comments of “The End of Men”, ah, so interesting seeing the pattern repeat itself over and over again. Man, there is just no getting through to womyn.

Canada and the States are very intertwined, in more than just Economies. If you ‘catch a cold’, you can bet that we will get it too, it’s just a matter of time. As for Obsidians blog, never been there, maybe I should check it out.

1. Any predictions what percentage of men will go for VR? Robogirls? This is getting discussed alot on a men's right's forum

The amount in my opinion matters little, when you consider that the amount of suitable men is shrinking directly due to the effects of Feminism the results will still be the same. As a commenter stated above, sex is a definite means of control for women, and if 20% of 8-10’s don’t want to get married and 20% of 5-7’s are hooked up to VR, this spells quite a huge issue for women who are looking to marry up. More women = Less value plus Less men = more value and you have a situation where the competition will get fierce.

When will feminism peak and begin to decline? When will feminism be completely gone? What about feminism in other countries? What's the shortest, average and longest number of years for this to happen?

I think that The Futurist is right on the money with the timing. Looking at certain MRA sites, it seems that the ‘marriage strike’ has been in full bloom for a few years now and one thing is for certain; the Feminist Agenda is also pushing forward, sadly, pushing men away and slitting it’s own wrists in the process. As for the peak, maybe we haven’t reached it yet. Heck, in “The End of Men” the author was debating women’s ‘superiority’ with her son and her husband. They truly think that are better than men and don’t need our ‘services’ whatsoever. I think the Feminist Horde will up their antics in the future, which will only hasten their demise.

As for when Feminism will be completely gone, I would give it 5 years after the bubble finally bursts. Heck, even using the numbers that “The End of Men” are so proud of, when 3 women are competing for 2 men (and that’s not assuming that all men want to marry and not expatriate out or immigrate their wives in), I wonder how resentful women will become, hmm? They of course will look for a scapegoat, as responsibility is something that most women cannot do, so before ‘zero hour’ I bet Feminism will take a beating.

What will America be like once feminism begins to decline? Once it's gone? Will men regain their rights that they lost and/or will women lose their rights?

I doubt women will lose their rights entirely, but I do believe that women will lose the vast amount of their power. Consider the imbalance in dating, (2 men for 3 women) which will get substantiated with smart men leaving the country or ‘ordering’ their wives in, will erode the number even further. Consider that there will be an abundance of ‘layabouts’ and a dearth of ‘good men’ and the effect on the economy as The Futurist stated. The powers that be (or what’s left of it) will have no choice but to make marriage ‘safe’ for men again. I bet money that all that would have to be done is to make things simply more fair, and not biased (i.e. if a woman cheats, she gives up her stake in hubby’s assets.) Women will be surprised and shocked that throwing a temper tantrum or insults doesn’t get the same effect that it used to. Due to the conditions that they face, they will have no choice but to re learn how to appease men, as not to do so has far too many negative consequences. Personally, I think this will affect all women below 50 years old. I had read Novaseeker’s take on The Futurist’s article and I have to agree with it. Women right now are over valued and feel no reason to reciprocate the efforts they demand from men.
In time, I bet that the shoe will be on the other foot, their value will plummet, and they will have to work to show men that THEY are worth it, quite a departure from what they are used to. Not only that, but with the ‘glut’ of suitable woman, all men will become targets, even married ones. Now married woman who used to cruise by in their relationships will have to be on the lookout for the young naïve woman who is looking for a man to settle down with. Remember, the social network which women depended on in the past will have either shrunk or completely disappeared so in order for a woman to have a child, a partner to assist will be paramount. Remember that woman want to marry more than men do, even when they where ‘oppressed’? Yet one more reason why these women will come to despise Feminism, and anyone who utters “Woman’s rights” will be immediately dismissed. Only after all the benefits woman had are gone will they realize just how good they had it.

Max

Been thinking about this for a while, very intriguing questions STM. One of the many truths I seem to see over and over again is that most women tend to be inherently selfish. They won’t do anything or stop doing something unless there is a definite benefit to be obtained or a detriment to be avoided. It is said that while men have a sense of justice, women do not, save whatever justice serves their purposes. In essence, when you look at the West presently, there are no consequences for their actions as they can still obtain whatever they wish. What does it matter that men scream for justice, so long as womyn get paid, they don’t see the issue. This is the main reason why I agree with The Futurist, sure the Government will have a vested interest to get men working again in time, but women will also have a vested interest in the very same thing.
Okay, here’s the deal, what one needs to consider are the needs of women versus men. Women like resources, and to be courted, winded, dined, gifts of appreciation, spend time with them, talk to them, and essentially build an emotional connection, right? Men on the other hand, simply want sex, to be treated with respect, for their spouse not to get fat and essentially to be left alone in their man caves or with their own hobbies. Now, let’s consider, why would a woman maintain her appearance when if she or her husband chooses to divorce? She gets preferential treatment from the courts and he gets all the bills. Why should she treat him well at all? Yes we know that there are jerk off s out there in the world, but while a male pig may get @$$ raped in court, a female pig will get rewarded, right? Since women lose nothing, they have no reason to act in any way whatsoever which benefits men.
However, this is the main reason why I think as we get closer to the bubble bursting that Women will turn on Feminism. When women can’t find suitable men, and many will have to compromise, this will enrage many a woman as they wonder how this turn about came about. See what I mean, now that WOMEN can’t find men, NOW men in education will become an issue which needs to be fixed and this will be traced back to…you guessed it, Feminism.
Solipsism is a horrible drug, and women suffer from this greatly. They assume that a man wishes to get married just like a woman does, which is why they dangle their child birthing abilities as something we pine and wish for, something we can’t live without. This is also part of the conceit of Feminism because in theory, they can do whatever we can do (and better of course) but we can’t have children, right? So of course they are the better gender, looky what they can do. Look how well single mothers are doing right now as an example, and look how they can do work previously held down by men, right? However, they never take into account that men are still paying for them either through child support or taxes and they are using man made inventions which equalize most normal workloads, this ‘independence’ is nothing more than a pipe dream in reality.
It will come as a very harsh shock when suitable men don’t wish to get married like women had always thought. Consider it, even before we get into the divorce statistics, why would a man get married when his wife will get fat, treat him like crap, weaponize sex, and demand to be treated like she was when they where dating. ANY issues which happen in the relationship will be considered his fault and if he voices his opinion, he will be condemned. Consider a man’s needs, why would any man who knows about this sign up for that? When this becomes obvious to enough men, women will have no choice.
It will become all to clear to woman that it will be in their best interests to cater to men, so they best learn how or lose out. It will be a very hard pill to swallow to realize that men never wanted to get married as much as women do, and only when the threat of unsupported spinsterhood looms will women in the aggregate learn this and seek retribution on the establishment which put them in this predicament. Remember this; a man and a woman’s market value depends on how well they can deliver the needs the other gender desires. This is why Rich men have a bevy of hot woman and vice versa. So, educated and ambitious men, the usual precursors of wealth, will have a flock of woman to choose from, and this will anger women to no end as they cater to them, or compromise to the immature and the unmotivated.
What about single moms, they still have outs, right? Well, with little or no social services as back up, what choice does a woman have for support or a family now? The choices will thin out with only one road they can choose, matrimony to a man if they want children. I’m sure there will be women who can afford to be a single mother, but I doubt the majority can swing it without intervention. As social services dry up, examples will be made of the previous beneficiaries of the system as their support evaporates. More and more, it will become clear as day that it is in a woman’s best interest to cater a man.
Now, I had mentioned that this situation will affect every woman under the age of 50. Why would a previously married woman pull up her bootstraps? Consider the needs of a woman and a man once more, what happens to a woman’s value to a man as she ages? It decreases, how about a man’s to a woman? That’s right, it increases. I explained this to my wife that a 45 year old woman will normally cheat down with a younger ‘stud’ who is better in bed than her husband but doesn’t make as much. However, a 45 year old man will cheat up with a younger woman looking at it from a purely law of the jungle standpoint. My wife mentioned that a man wouldn’t do that because she would rape him in court, I asked her what would happen if that consequence no longer applied or greatly relaxed.
A person’s market value is also determined by WHOM you can attract, and a 45 year old woman may attract a 25 year old less financially stable man, but a 45 year old man can attract a 30-35 year old woman. I’m sure women in the past feared a man’s MLC and had a vested interest in showing him that she was a better catch than anything he could get out there and also not to leave a stable environment on an unproven gamble. So of course, meeting a man’s needs was of paramount importance when she could be left in the cold for a younger and hotter woman, which after the bubble bursts there will be more, much more than previously who I bet will be much more aggressive than before. Also remember this, while a 39 year old cougar may have a 26 year old cub at the moment, what do you think will happen when that ‘Cub’ gets a little older? If he does indeed want a family, he can simply get another, younger woman, yeah? Let’s add 13 years, hmm, lets see, the ‘cub’ is now 39 and the Cougar is 52, see an issue? Let’s also remember that with cuts to health care, women will have to depend on their husbands for support, those without may feel a sting not felt for quite a while. Once more, the examples made by little old ladies in ill-health will remind women of exactly what The Futurist stated in his article, that finding AND keeping a man is a well thought out investment.
The most stinging realization will be that they will have no other choice but to cater to men. They previously had everyone’s ears when they cried “I’m a victim.”, I bet they will be more or less ignored. They had everyone’s sympathy when they complained about their boorish boyfriends and husbands; one more they will be disregarded. They used to be put on pedestals and to have men perform for them like jesters in order to prove their worth, but now, they will have gun shy men who will be able to pick and choose from the large pool of willing women, and women will have to prove to men why they are worthy, and more worthy than their equally as ‘qualified’ sisters as all the other avenues are no longer as lucrative or even available.
Women will hate Feminism, because it will be in their best interests to do so.

Savethemales

Thanks for your long comment, Max.

So you agree with everything the futurist wrote in his article? Itll really take another 10 years(and not less?) before the misandry bubble finally begins to deflate?

Im curious why you are married. Ill never marry, especially not in America! What's your stance on VR and robogirls, especially for us single men who don't want to risk it with a human girlfriend?

I don't expect feminists to suddenly change their behavior after feminism falls. Could this mean a future where most men will be with robogirls? Would alot of women go for roboguys or would they rather share an alpha male?

Katie

This entire thing is blowing my mind, so I'm just going to jump and skip from a few topics... So my brain doesn't explode.

Feminism is ruining the world...
You're saying that a world run by men is better than a world run by woman, which is not only high and mighty, but ignorant. And if that's not what you're saying, I'm lost. If feminism is woman's empowerment (And I'll give you that it isn't always carried out in a fashion that is realistic, positive, or even showing a good face to women and their causes, but) then the opposite would be men's empowerment. Which is the way things were run for a very long time. It takes balance. We balance each other out, the two sexes, we don't have to fight to be on top. Enjoy what the other can offer, accept, learn and appreciate. I think being under men for so long, when women got a chance to stand, feminists, as you view them, went a little too far to one side. It happens.
There are two sides to people. It's like all those men who think every woman wants a man who's a man's man. A man who has no "Mangina". Who isn't "in touch" with his feelings, I.e. a person able to tap into his whole self and view things from both perspectives. Women want men that can relate to them. It doesn't fix the "problem" between the sexes, but it eases some burdens if people can not be so close minded and think just from their side of things. How does being more make you less? My point is, things are backwards.

Onto the Cuckolding issue. Now,I'm sure I'm reading this definition right. Cuckolding is when a married man's wife cheats on him... How is this, A. more damaging than rape?, and B. Any more upsetting or psychologically damaging to a man than it is for a woman? Plenty of woman get cheated on. Maybe it's because we don't have all of that male pride making us have to be the best or die. I get where it comes from, you know, defend and protect or die instincts from cave men times, but really? Like interpreting the Holy books for situations of the day, you have to take a second and realize that you have to view that pride in perspective.

I can't remember who said it, boy I wish I could, but it both cracks me up and disgusts me. Someone said in their response to this article that it's a woman's goal in life (I should say ALL women) to get attention. That if men want to make an actual change in our behavior they should ignore us completely. And like good little lab mice we would start to pick up better behaviors to suit them and not continue to ruin society. I'm paraphrasing, I won't pretend otherwise, but that was the gist of his message. It was appalling. That statement pretty much put us back to times where it was interfering in a marriage, not saving a woman, if someone got in the middle of a man beating his wife. It says I'm not a person, that I have no goals or dreams or aspirations. That I don't have the intelligence, or the right to go out into the world and take a chance to make something of myself. It reminds me of when people thought others with different color skin didn't seem to have the same brain processes just because they didn't look the same. That they couldn't possibly function in the same way a "regular" human being does. It made me want to cry and rage. The sad thing is that there really is no talking to those kind of people. Some maybe, but not all. Such deep-seated views and thoughts... It's hard to break through. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm definitely not saying I know what's going on every where or how to fix things all at once. But I do think it starts with not pointing fingers and actually discussing. Not siting statistics, actually getting out and doing. I don't label myself a feminist. I'm not perfect. I AM a woman. I try not to judge. I do think that a lot of what is on here is hateful and ignorant. But I do value opinions. Ant I do think it took intelligence and time to post this piece that we all commented on, and I try to appreciate everything people do and find the good in it. So thanks. It gave me a reason to write this.

The Futurist

Katie,

Feminism is ruining the world...

The world, no. America, Britain, and Canada, yes.

Some Muslim countries could actually benefit from some feminism (as long as it doesn't quickly go to the other extreme like it did in the US), but Western women don't seem to care about the plight of Muslim women.

You're saying that a world run by men is better than a world run by woman, which is not only high and mighty, but ignorant.

As Camille Paglia, a woman, said, a world run by women would never have gotten us past living in caves.

Your problem is that you don't know how everything you use in your daily life was invented by a man, maintained by a man, built by a man. Your accusation of ignorance was projection.

Cuckolding is when a married man's wife cheats on him...

Cheats on him, AND uses HIS resources on a child spawned by another man.

Most men would rather be raped themselves than get this, as per polls I showed.

Any more upsetting or psychologically damaging to a man than it is for a woman?

If a woman was forced by the courts to work two jobs to support a kid that her husband had with another woman, only THEN it would be an equal comparison. Get a clue. A man cheating on his wife is not anywhere near as bad as a woman cuckolding her husband and making the man pay for the kid that is not his.

The fact that you are trying to justify what is the equivalent of rape for men, shows your misandry and lack of willingless to treat men as fully human.

Women want men that can relate to them.

That is what pick-up artists study. You need to gain a better understanding of how women think. And no, being a woman does not mean you know how women think.

I think being under men for so long,

Women were not 'under' men. They often got to be safe while men died on the battlefield and did dangerous work, even in the old days.

I don't label myself a feminist.

Labels don't matter. You are still attached to freebies that feminism gives you at the expense of men.

You certainly don't have any awareness of the mistreatment of men that is going on in America today, much less an empathy for it.

perro

A very interesting article, a first rate job.

But one thing occurs to me. Concerning the PUA angle, isn't the danger to men not marriage but fatherhood? A wife MIGHT turn into an opportunist trying to milk the man for all she can get, but a pregnant one-night-stand is almost sure to be one. Birth control is not foolproof.

I have several friends who have never been married but are being put through the child support ringer as hard as any divorced man. They seem worse off than a childless man getting a divorce. If there are no children in a marriage doesn't that disarm opportunistic women to a large extent?

Perhaps a vasectomy might be a safer than avoiding marriage?

The Futurist

perro,

Yes, a one-night stand can lead to 19-21 years of child support = alimony. In fact, a woman can get pregnant with man A, yet name man B as the father.

However, even a childless marriage of over 10 years leads to lifetime alimony on a no-fault basis. If a man marries at 30, his wife divorces him at 41, she gets alimony until the day the man dies. The man cannot retire at all - his only release is an early death.

A pre-nup can, sometimes, shield against alimony, but it cannot shield against child support = stealth alimony. Feminists made child support immune to pre-nups so as to create a trojan horse for alimony that gets around pre-nups.

ollave

Great article. Unfortunately the rabbit hole goes much deeper and is far more sinister....

http://www.archive.org/details/TheDisappearingMale-CBC

Mikko Rantala

Excellent article. I feel like I've stumbled on to the root of the beanstalk after only glimpsing leaves of it on the blogosphere.

Rob

This is a long piece full of misinformation. I selected a couple sentences that are particularly ignorant.

"As a result, women are the first to want into a monogamous relationship, and the first to want out. This is neither right nor wrong, merely natural."

Let's start with the word "natural". Natural to whom? Natural to Americans of a certain generation? Natural to certain African communities still in existence? Or natural to our ancestors who lived 20,000 years ago in foraging cultures that never even conceived of agriculture. The author makes the common mistake of assuming conditions existing in the present are "natural" and have always existed. This simply isn't so. Much that seems natural to us only feels that way because of acculturation.

"In the past, extremely few women ever had more than one or two sexual partners in their lives, as being an unwed mother led to poverty and social ostracization."

Unfortunately for the author this sentence is inaccurate. Perhaps he/she uses too short a time-line or selects samples from to narrow a range. The advent of agriculture led to economic prison for women. Pre-agriculture, women slept with many men and men slept with many women. It was considered shameful to hoard your sexuality. Children were raised by all the men and women of a village. Often, children didn't even know who their "real" father was.

I suggest you read two books:

Sex at Dawn: The Prehistoric Origins of Modern Sexuality (Ryan and Jetha)

and

Love, Sexuality, and Matriarchy: About Gender (Fromm)

The Futurist

Rob,

Your knowledge is limited, which is why you engage in projection about 'ignorance". Hypergamy in women is well studied and established. Cultural restraints like old-fashioned marriage were controlling both male and female natural tendencies in the past.

The author makes the common mistake of assuming conditions existing in the present are "natural" and have always existed.

That mistake is not made at all. The return of natural behavior in the 21st century, after removal of cultural constraints, is being observed.

Pre-agriculture,

Doesn't this immediately contradict what you said in the previous paragraph of the natural tendencies 20,000 years ago no longer being human nature now?

It was considered shameful to hoard your sexuality.

Completely wrong. Genetic tests show that in the past, only 40% of men reproduced, while 80% of women did (a major point you conveniently ignored). The top man getting more than one woman exclusively is seen in Indian mythology going back 6000+ years.

Rob

The Futurist,

Your ambition outstrips your knowledge. You've attempted to do in a few months what people spend a lifetime on. Have you spent significant time studying or living with peoples who live under conditions completely apart from those you and I are used too? You seem content to cite one study on genetic testing. That is typical of an amateur who decides to dabble. Do some comprehensive research and discover that the world is an old and big place that has housed many different familial and social relationships.

If you have some intellectual honesty, read the books I suggested.

The Futurist

The Futurist,

Have you spent significant time studying or living with peoples who live under conditions completely apart from those you

Of course. I have lived in multiple countries, at more than one prosperity tier.

Do some comprehensive research and discover that the world is an old and big place

Again, it is pretty clear that my experience is more than yours. You completely ignored the point about Indian civilizational data going back 5000 years. The genetic data cited is well established and not disputed.

The rest of your post is just shaming language and vague dodging, which is the last stand of the person who cannot debate.

If you are so sure of yourself, go to Roissy's blog and explain your points to the commenters there, and how the views expressed both there and here are wrong (despite being heavily peer reviewed). Let's see if you have what it takes..

Red0660

We would all be wise to consider the sheer breath and scope of the feminist machine. Men must begin to understand that we can't compete with women and associated government policy of feminism without it being in direct conflict with our social contract with women.

When women have Affirmative Action "women first policy" in job hirings and college admissions, when the Stimulus Package is devoted to women though 80% of all jobs lost in our current recession have been to men, men must withdraw from our social contract with women. (See article: No Country For Burly Men by Christina Hoff Sommers) We can not provide to women, we are in competition with them and government to be able to fulfill this obligation. Men are attacked and disenfranchised at both ends.

My brother is one of those 80% of men who lost his job. Though policies are designed to provide to women, men are still required to provide to women as well. My brother's unemployment is currently being garnished to provide to a woman. You can't disenfranchise men in the public sphere without creating a conflict in our social contract to women. Women have married the State and at the continued expense of men. Men must withdraw and go on the offensive.

The Paycheck Fairness Act which is on the horizon. I think the real goal behind much of this is pro business. This law and other “equality laws” are simply designed to drive down wages and marginalize the working class.

We should really consider why such a law would be passed in such a dire economic climate as this. The reason is because it is pro business. Suffice as to say that it can be called the Paycheck Sameness Act. It is the classic divide and conquer strategy, in fact it has been all along with “women’s equality”.

You turn the labor force against itself and make it a liability against itself. You can use women to divide and conquer in this fashion. This act is not meant to bring wages up, it is intended to bring them down and furthermore to stratify the workforce between hired workers and contract \ temps.

It will serve to push a large portion of the labor pool under the roof of outsourcing companies i.e. contract and temp companies. Once you control and monopolize the labor pool you control wages. This has in fact been the goal of multinational corporations in the United States for some time now..This has been the goal of globalization.

‎”I see in the near future a crisis
approaching that unnerves me and causes
me to tremble for the safety of my country;
corporations have been enthroned, an era
of corruption in High Places will follow, and
the Money Power of the Country will
endeavor to prolong its reign by working
upon the prejudices of the People, until the
wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and
the Republic is destroyed”

-President Abraham Lincoln

Take a look… Wages Vs. Productivity.. A Separation

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IU3iQnIt6Nc/S15PXKK_MEI/AAAAAAAAATw/cDoaXXiFSwc/s1600-h/l_000c07bd4b8745c4946c2cca721ef026.jpg


Distribution of Wealth Plutocracy Reborn:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_IU3iQnIt6Nc/S15PWr48dbI/AAAAAAAAATo/jRcEL1iXrdM/s1600-h/Copy+(2)+of+ScreenShot001.bmp

Wages separated from productivity some 40 years ago. The middle class is being increasingly marginalized. If we do not take control of these issues and restore policy back to the American people we are going to witness something catastrophic. The United States is headed for collapse and Revolutionary civil war if we do not take action as individuals and as a people.

It is already happening. Political, economic and social instability will become more and more pronounced. I fear that if we do not act now, our country is headed for something more atrocious than many Americans can possibly imagine. I am greatly concerned for the future of our nation.
We must establish control of our government back to the people with diligence, passion and great haste. We don’t have much time. We must shrink the size and reach of government and banish it from our personal lives. We must restore Liberty, Freedom and Independence!

Centralized powers of the Federal Government must be removed at once. It is the individual states that are supposed to have all the power, it is the people at the local level. The states themselves are supposed to be separate and sovereign but united by the BASIC foundational infrastructure of the Federal Government.

James Madison wrote in The Federalist #45:

“The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the Federal Government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State Governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will for the most part be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects, which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people; and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.”

We must restore our Constitutional Republic!


When Lincoln said the following

“the Money Power of the Country will
endeavor to prolong its reign by working
upon the prejudices of the People until the
wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and
the Republic is destroyed”

When he spoke of “working upon the prejudices of the people” he meant such things as feminism would be used to divide and conquer us, to destroy us.

The Bolsheviks did the same thing with women during the Communist Revolution. They knew that if they could divide and conquer men and women they could conquer the people. Feminism was one of if not the most prominent instrument of the Communists.

Here is a feminist poster from the Communist Revolution:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_IU3iQnIt6Nc/S3-wdTWLnhI/AAAAAAAAAXI/G7im7izaETs/s1600-h/ScreenShot013.bmp

Here is a time line of feminist thinkers:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_IU3iQnIt6Nc/S5lUc3k3gvI/AAAAAAAAAZQ/tVx9cUvE_dc/s1600-h/ScreenShot015.bmp


Alexandra Kollontai headed up the Zhenotdel or the Women’s Department of the Russian Communist Party, i.e. what is equivalent to the new Council On Women and Girls. The feminists have been installed into our Federal Government. Our country is in grave danger! Women are the key to our usurpation as a people. We must confront allegations of class oppression WHEN EVER AND WHERE EVER men are accused of it!

We must inform women that their innate natures are being used against us. However I fear that it is to much a part of her. As such we must raise awareness among our Countrymen. WE MUST CONTINUE TO FORM RANKS. WE MUST THINK, SPEAK AND ACT!!!!

“Then it will be plain that the first condition for the liberation of the wife is to bring the whole female sex back into public industry, and that this in turn demands that the characteristic of the monogamous family as the economic unit of society be abolished.” -Frederick Engels

“Anyone who knows anything of history knows that great social changes are impossible without feminine upheaval. Social progress can be measured exactly by the social position of the fair sex, the ugly ones included.”
-Karl Marx

Zac

what happens when reproductive technolgy gets so good that we have all theese 40's old women doing it and younger women looking to do that after they get their careers going?

will they then get careers sleep around, and then get IVF as the new normal stage in life?. you see IVf could be improved and more accessible in the future?

then what?

Savethemales

Some 40 year old women are already using IVF and raising child(ren) as single older mothers. But most feminists are having 0 children. Alot of men are also wanting nothing to do with women and they will all flock to virtual reality girls in 2020, this is the biggest horsemen to ending feminism.

I predict there's an 80% chance that feminism will be well in decline by 2020, what do you guys think?

Vickie

This is a very good article and pretty much sums up the RESULT. But the CAUSE is actually very different than the article and the responses suggest. It is not that feminists have gone out into the world and caused a lot of trouble for men. It IS that women have BECOME men. They have become their own heroes and their own helpers, and when they aren't woman enough or man enough, then big-daddy government takes care of them. Women have taken on male traits, when using female traits can produce the same positive results without the sad and destructive results we see today.
What is needed to heal this breach is a BALANCE of male and female aspects, traits or archetypes (pick your descriptor). If women were to remember their own unique feminine powers and mysteries, they would understand the balance of divine energies, would know that it is counterproductive to try to be like men, and would strive to regain the balance nature intended between men and women, and would no longer resent men or abuse them, or discount or minimalize them. Men and women are BOTH needed for balance in a healthy culture. Man is the conquerer/hero and protector, woman is the inspiration, nurturer and life-giver. This can be done in a modern way. We do not have to go back to "women as objects".

There are many examples throughout history of powerful women who were revered by, followed by and sometimes even worshipped by "real men". These women did not need to use male traits or male energy or compete with men. They had their own feminine powers and knew how to use them.
What the world needs now is a return to ancient ways where women had power in their feminine mysteries and men loved them for their differences, and knew they themselves had value as heroes, warriors and servants --servants in the sense of finding a woman they admire and feeling the natural urge to try and make her happy. Men who fall in love still try to do these things, don't they? Where are the women who want these things from men? Men's jobs have been taken away. Not by women....but by women acting like men and carrying male energy out into the world. The world needs a balance. Bring back the female energies and mysteries and the balance is restored.This can be done without losing any of the positive results the women's movement has given women. At the same time, it will also give men their jobs back and take away the double bind that men find themselves in.
I don't think most women who work to make better lives for women are really understanding the big picture. They just see their own little corner of the world. I don't believe they realize the harm they have done on the flip side of the coin. They just see the gains. Therefore, how can they know that having their male and female energies out of balance is the problem?
I'm starting by teaching women how to get heir needs met without being perceived as "nagging" or "bitching". It involves balancing her inner archetypes so men respond beautifully to them. Men love this stuff by the way. Who wants to be nagged and bitched at? It works for women; it works for men, but it is the female that I am educating.
Instead of pointing fingers, let's educate people.

The Futurist

Vickie,

Good points.

I think that when feminism pushes women to only value male metrics of accomplishment, and devalue female metrics (motherhood, etc.), that is in fact real misogyny.

They are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, by saying that only round holes matter.

Again, good points. You have a major role to play, in speaking out against this. Do visit again.

Peter Feller

Amazing article! You put it all very well. I always felt that I was getting the crappy end of the stick. I have numerous friends who have divorced and many of them due to their wives' indiscretion.

At first, I couldn't believe that they were paying alimony even though she cheated on him. Insane! Even more shocking was the case of my buddy Dave who is stuck paying child support to a woman who cheated and had the child with another man. This is simply absurd in any court of law. He says that it is because the mother says that his 3 yr old child views him as his father and the biological dad as an uncle. The woman was asked to choose who should pay the child support by asking her who the child views as his father. The father's testimony was not accepted due to so-called conflict of interest. And the child obviously couldn't be put on the stand. What kind of world are we living in?

Peter Feller

Let me share with you my story of a few years ago that will make for an interesting read.

I learned a valuable lesson years ago when I visited Colombia and met a nice girl. She also happened to be beautiful. Now, after seeing her for a few days and sleeping with her, I figured that we had embarked on quite a nice journey together. Well, it turns out that I made a mistake and she was only with me for what she could get out of me. She always wanted to go shopping for stuff - even things like more shoes, furniture, linen, computers, the list goes on. Initially, I gave in and bought her what she wanted since it wasn't too much. But after buying a laptop and desk, I wanted to know what she was using it for. She got mad and said that I didn't trust her. She had said that she wanted to brush up her computer skills to get a better job. She was a waitress at the time and I thought it was a great idea so I helped out. Turns out she made a profile on some dating site for foreigners (like me) to get hooked on to her. She had long-distance "relationships" with multiple guys in different countries (US, parts of Western Europe, Canada). To put it lightly, I was upset and confronted her. She got even more mad at me saying that I was snooping and that I didn't trust her. Then I asked her why so many guys? And she actually told me a bit of the truth.

She said that women have one thing to offer and that is sex. Guys will buy that over almost anything. She said that I didn't/wouldn't pay her because I thought that I was not like the other guys who would just pay up a small amount. So the costs add up and now I have to pay for all the times that I was with her. Even though it wasn't in money, it was in kind. Wow! I thought she was insane and of course, a complete whore. But in retrospect, she told me the truth that night and I am thankful for it.

She didn't have faith that I would stick around or be part of her plans for us. So she went ahead and fleeced me for all that I was worth. Any other guy would've flipped out and taken all his stuff back. But I wanted information more than anything else. So I kept going. btw, let's call her Caroline.

Caroline continued to tell me that those guys meant nothing to her and she was just setting things up so that in case she needed money or stuff, she could get it from them. But if I wanted to really be with her, then she would try to stop all of it. Now, I’m a nice guy but I’m not stupid. If a woman is cheating on me, albeit not physically and in a very weird way that I have never encountered before, I am not going to trust her with me or a dime of my money. So I tell her that I want to know more about what she has been doing. She says that she is not a bad person and that all women in Colombia do this – even the married ones. She was convinced that girls have no choice but to use their bodies to make money.

Now let’s be clear. Caroline did not need money (she worked as a waitress and I met her while out with friends) and she was not a prostitute in the true sense of the word. I know what you’re thinking - of course she is because, in one way or the other, she takes money for sex. The thing is that there are actual prostitutes and they charge up front. She was more of an indirect prostitute.

Before you think that I am defending her actions, know that I actually have more respect for the upfront prostitutes since they do not mess with your mind and heart. They simply tell you how much it’s going to be and you have no expectation or want for anything more. But with this “regular girl”, they still want to be paid but just don’t tell you.

Caroline is a very well educated girl. She reads psychology books in her free time and that’s what caught my attention the first time. So when she tells me something, I am all ears. She continued to tell me that one day I might meet a girl somewhere that has been biologically messed up and doesn’t want something from me. She did not mean that as an insult but rather as a fact of life. She proceeded to tell me that women everywhere are biologically wired to be like that. In most cases, they do not know it. The women in developed countries who are well educated fight this biological need of theirs and some fight it successfully for their entire lives. But they are still going against nature.

So after this, I needed a drink or a few. After pounding back a bunch, I found myself in a bar with my buddies and a bunch of random dudes. Good, no women around to rob me. So I guess I must have told them the story of my Colombian “love”. The guys are all laughing and asking me how old I am and what I do for a living. Well, I was in my early 30’s with a Masters in engineering working as a consultant making good money. Actually, great money. They said that I had a lot to learn about women. Obviously, I wasn’t too happy about that. I have been with and banged a lot of women – more than most guys I know. I have a few rules – like being honourable to my guy friends and their wives/girlfriends/sisters. But I have had my fair share of good and bad relationships. But here I was in a bar, drunk of out my mind, talking to bunch of guys I didn’t know about a girl they didn’t know. And was basically being called naïve. Amazing!

They proceeded to call over one of the hottest girls around and she came over. One of them spoke to her, got her to come over and hang out. I don’t really know how but Rick (one of the new guys) ended up getting her to come back to my suite with her friend, who seemed to be quite in to me. I was feeling emotionally numb so I wasn’t on my A-game. Ok, I really had no game and barely wanted to respond to her at all. So don’t ask me how this happened. I really don’t know. Rick and the guys pull me aside and ask me to get $50 out and say that it is very important that I have that handy. They tell me to give it to the girl (Michelle, I think) after she leaves. Now, I’m not a fan of prostitution so I refuse and even in my drunk state, I’m not enjoying this. I forget about the $50 in my sock and go back to my suite with Rick, his hottie, and Michelle. We get to the penthouse and the girls are loving it. The hot-tub is all ready and the girls remove their clothes without any hesitation and get in it. I forget about the Caroline and bang the living shit out of Michelle. Her ass was something out of a magazine. It was like god himself sculpted it. But I digress. Next morning, I remember the sock with $50 in it. Such a measly sum for anyone for doing just about anything. I pay my plumber 4 times as much and he doesn’t do much work let alone blow me for hours and then wake me up for morning sex. Yep. This was the life.

I had to get to the client site so I needed to get these people out of my place. I woke Ricky up and asked him if she could take care of my place and my stuff until I came back. He was more than happy but asked me to put all my valuables in my safe and said that I had to give Michelle the $50. Having no real choice and running out of time, I just did it. I woke her up with a kiss and tried to make it look like a joke. Gave her $50US and told her that it was for last night. Now if I had done this to any girl I know, it would have either evoked a slap or laughter. I didn’t get either from her. Michelle was happy and she started to take my clothes off and wouldn’t take no for an answer. This keeps getting better and better. Alright, never forget the $50 in sock.

Michelle was completely cool and didn’t mind other chicks looking at me or me talking to them. As long as I paid her even a little, I could do whatever I wanted and she was cool. This is in stark contrast with Caroline who was a possessive psycho when it came to other women. The wonders that $50 can do. Neither girls are prostitutes or consider themselves to be whores.

That story was long and maybe boring for some but it was to illustrate my point that women want something in return for sex. It doesn’t have to be much but just give it to them so that they do not take a LOT more from you when you don’t know it. Rick and his boys made this point by having me actually go through with their $50 ploy. I got taken for only a few weeks and a few days of heartbreak. You can get screwed for much more - say alimony and child-support. You don’t need a Caroline when you can pay $50 for a Michelle.

As you can probably tell, marriage is not in the cards for me. At least not in the conventional sense.

The Futurist

Peter Feller,

Thanks for your comments.

All I ask in return is that you open the eyes of 10 other men, preferably men under 30, to the shocking injustice being done against them in this culture.

Some men will be whiteknights/pedestalizers and slam you for even suggesting that misandry exists. Avoid them. Bring up the topic only with men who appear to suspect something is imbalanced, but have not had the picture put into focus. Speed up their learning curve.

And then, request that they go and educate another 10 guys each, and so on. Feel free to use this article or any of the others I linked to, or others on those sites.

Just increase the knowledge level of 10 other guys. In that act alone, you have fought back.

Peter Feller

GK,

A few years ago a man came knocking at the door of my fraternity house. He wanted to talk to us about something and we gave him some time to make his point. The problem was were young, stupid and also quite inebriated at any given time. And, we loved women (and still do!) This man was very passionate about what he believed in - pretty much the same idea as your article. However, he just seemed like a Jehovah witness type of person trying to get us passionate about something we didn't think was actually a problem. We thought he was loonie and asked him to leave. Before getting out, he told us that we would learn either the easy way or the hard way (something my father likes to say) and that even though we are dismissing his truths now, we will have to deal with it later in life. Fair enough, we couldn't contest that but most of the frat guys still thought he was loonie and that we were too young to care about marriage and the future. It's been a while since then but his words echo now and maybe I can reach out to my old buddies and let them know how screwed they can get if they don't smarten up about what marriage is really about today.

I have actually already sent your article to a few of my close friends and a couple of guys who have long-term girlfriends. The recurrent issue I am seeing is that every guy thinks that his girl will not do it to him, myself included. I cannot seem to fathom that my girl (and she is amazing) would ever betray me. Also, she is not natively North American and moved here recently. So her values are different, although that can change. So with that said, marriage would give her a nice chance to screw me that she would not otherwise have if we just continued dating, which is the route I would rather take.

What do you think a realistic alternate path can be? Most good girls aren't interested in dating for more than 2-3 years - they want you to propose and make no secret about it. Not that I am particularly interested in that either, but for different reasons. hahaha! But you know what I mean. Let's says you've found a girl that you are actually happy with but you don't believe in marriage. This is the situation I am currently in. I just don't like it. It ties me down plus all your points are pretty good. Before reading your article, I read this page that got me thinking.

https://dissention.wordpress.com/2010/03/04/things-i-learned-at-starbucks-1/

Peter Feller

btw, some good buddies of mine are very into the whole PUA routine. These guys are highly intelligent and successful and come from a variety of backgrounds. They got into the PUA routine just a few months ago and it has worked wonders for them. Before, they would go to a bar and talk to each other like everyone else. Now they are "opening sets" left, right and center. By the end of the night, they have either picked up, gone over to the girl's place or at the very least scored a bunch of numbers for later. Not bad seeing as how they didn't really get much action prior to this new game. And the best part is they view it all as a tree algorithm. You should hear the crazy stuff that comes out of these guys' mouths. Sometimes they get a negative response, but all they want is a response and to be remembered, possibly more.

It does take time and immense reading to become good at being a PUA. I don't really have the time to do what they're doing but am naturally quite good at it. Any good resources you know that I can pass to them. They have "The Game" and other books that I can't readily recall.

c64glen

Sorry about your penis.

Peter Feller

I don't understand. My penis? What about it?

Savethemales

Peter, The Futurist, and other readers...

I notice you are an alpha who's got game. But there's lots of risks, such as false rape, pregnancy, diseases and shaming you into marriage. Did Caroline come across as a feminist?

There's lots of reasons women falsely accuse men of rape. I read one guy's story where she wanted to be paid for sex and he refused to. She simply blew the rape whistle and got him 5 years in prison and ruined his life. Slut or prostitute, there's little difference except a slut gets around the law by being indirect about wanting to be paid for sex.

A woman could trap a man into pregnancy and he's stuck paying child support. She could cockold him if he can't get her pregnant. She will then hope he doesn't ask for a paternity test on time or at all. If he's married, he has no recourse, he's simply stuck.

You say you "probably" won't marry, but don't underestimate the power of shaming language as well as her pussy. Only 25% of men have been successful with their marriage stike, 75% of men eventually marry and we know that marriage 2.0 is a good deal only for women. If you insist on marrying, expat to a male friendly country and marry there.

I am a MGTOW and strongly feel this is far better than game in the fight against feminism. You(and many men) spend 10s to 100s of thousands on women over your lifetime, mostly for sex. Some men think they can "buy" her love by being a white knight and supporting his princess. Stop handing out money to women, this feeds feminism!

Going my own way, all my hard earned money is mine to spend as I please. If more men did this, feminism will be seen as unprofitable and fall faster. Im very lucky that I don't need sex, but for those that do, hold out for VR of 2020. Actually, ill be buying VR myself for other reasons just as I use my computer for other reasons than porn. Men have invented all this and youll be putting money in the hands of men.

I want a normal, traditional relationship with a woman, but im smart enough to know this is impossible in America. Ive taken the red pill and have woken up to the truth that only 1% of women are decent ladies. You never know if your woman is a lady or just pretends to be one to get you to marry her. Every guy would like to think his girl is a lady, most learn the hard way they have been duped. Virtual reality(2020) and robogirls(2030) will solve all problems and be a trillion dollar market.

The Futurist, I love your blog and predictions. Ive shown your blog to a bunch of men and discuss your four horsemen on MRA forums. The VR/robogirls is my favoriate and will make the biggest impact.

Kathrina Martinsen

Okay, I've read the article and am going to post some opinions below. Hopefully, they're chronological in regards to the piece, but they may not all be. This is a long article, after all.

Quote: Women clearly did not mind sharing the top man with multiple other women, ultimately deciding that being one of four women sharing an 'alpha' was still more preferable than having the undivided attention of a 'beta'.

Wrong supposition. Deciding that it was more preferable to the alternative does not by a long shot equal "clearly didn't mind". It's obviously a matter of offspring survival. It has nothing to do with *personal* preference!

Quote: Furthermore, when women destroy the commitment, there is great harm to children

Meaning that the children are not harmed when men break the commitment? Erroneous conclusion!

Quote: A man who refuses to marry is neither harming innocent minors nor expecting years of payments from the woman

Neither does a woman refusing to marry harm innocent minors. We're not talking marriage, here. We're talking children. Men leaving relationships with children, whether married or unmarried, definitely have an impact on those children!

Quote: In the past, extremely few women ever had more than one or two sexual partners in their lives

Wait... didn't you just say that women were polyamorous, easily adjusting from one alpha male to the next? And that this actually worked to the best benefit of society at the time?

Quote: People married at the age of 20, and usually died by the age of 50. People were virgins at marriage, and women spent their 20s tending to 3 or more children. The wife retained her beauty 15 years into the marriage, and the lack of processed junk food kept her slim even after that. This is an entirely different psychological foundation than the present urban feminist norm of a woman marrying at the age of 34 after having had 10 or more prior sexual relationships

You've put this as a link, yet there's no direct quote to support that anywhere. Can you actually tell which 34-year old women have had more than 10 sexual encounters from her looks? I don't think so. Also, where's the evidence that a woman in her 20s who's given birth to at least three children is still physically trim? You're really riding on wishful thinking, here! Bearing children changes the body. As does hard work. If 20s women are fit after carrying three children to term, it means she's also done A LOT of hard physical labour (or working out at the gym, 20th century type). Not to mention that actual body structure has changed due to hormones etc. in food. Being a woman, I've looked more into the changes to women's bodies, but increased height, waistline, earlier puberty, larger feet are all results of toxins and hormones in our daily foods. The classical '50s housewife hourglass figure doesn't really exist anymore, as much because it simply isn't possible - not because of marrying later.

Quote: the wedding itself has gone from a solemn event attended only by close family and friends, to an extravaganza of conspicuous consumption for the enjoyment of women but financed by the hapless man.

Or - as tradition decrees - the father of the *bride* pays. It's also called dowry, which in reality has been practised for thousands of years.

Quote: c) Women marrying at an age when very few years of their peak beauty are remaining, compared to a decade or more remaining under Marriage 1.0.

So... beauty really is just skin deep then, for you? Nothing to do with aging, like fine wine, tempering, tolerating, learning, being educated? All I can say is, that if that's the case, you deserve what you get.

Quote: For example, being a needy, supplicative, eager-to-please man is precisely the opposite behavior that a man should employ, where being dominant, teasing, amused, yet assertive is the optimal persona.

This is true! But the same is true for women. Why else are men attracted to women, who are 'hard to get' as opposed to those, who're willing to do the deed on the first date - which will often be considered as 'cheap'.

OK. This is obviously going to be a looong post, to rival the original. I'm a woman, though not full-blood American. In Denmark, these discussions have been going on for years and have perhaps, but not necessarily, progressed beyond the base level of this thread and US laws. Obviously, I'm going to list my objections first and foremost. I agree with many things said here, such as that single fathers should have equal rights and be given equal respect as single mothers, that violence by women to men is an overlooked problem, that many women are obsessed with the plain idea of equality etc., that the girl who cried 'rape' is becoming way too common and that this should be punished harshly, etc.

But still... at this point I need to have a beer! There're so many good thoughts behind many of the arguments, and yet the author ends up opposing himself as I've tried to illustrate with my quotes. And the story goes on ...

Quote: Women are largely unaware how vastly different the male reaction is to a 10 relative to a 7, let alone to women of even lower scores.

Makes perfect sense to me. But I prefer to believe that those of us with an actual mind and something other than a straight body to offer will still rank higher. Delusion? Maybe - if you're looking for other than straight breeding. Honestly, your own article states that the male biology needs to scatter his seeds. How do you think that's going to happen with virtual sex? Will the men adapt? Or will they instead turn to beta females, as it were. Those of us with natural boobs that tend to sag as time goes by, etc. but who still have the power of mind to engage the imagination of the man?

Bring on the computers. I, for one, ain't scared. And I'm a (somewhat) single female of 35, still wanting children, and not wanting to be a single mom, but on the other other hand not wanting to settle. Having grown up with parents who never touched each other lovingly, I'd much rather be the healthy (by)product of a single woman. Sorry!

Quote: Modern women will be forced to reacquaint themselves with this ancient concept in order to generate a competitive advantage. This necessity could lead to a movement of pragmatic women conducting a wholesale repudiation of misandry masquerading as 'feminism' that has created this state of affairs, and thus will be the jolt that benefits both men and women.

With this quote you demean both men and women. Women, for suggesting that true love is an act - and men, for suggesting that they'd fall for that act!

Quote: Rape legislation has also bypassed the US Constitution, leaving a man guilty until he proves himself innocent, while the accusing woman faces no penalty for falsely sending a man to prison for 15 years, where he himsef will get raped.

Again, this is (fortunately) different in Denmark. Many, many cases of alleged (and false) rapes are proven to be false by police or by actual admission of the so-called 'victim' - who then gets a jail penalty. Yes. And it should be no less, for defaming and possibly naming someone a rapist. It needs to carry a dire consequence! Here, I'm in total agreement! Unfortunately, the trend to cry 'rape' is on the increase. I am shamed on behalf of my fellow women out there!

Quote: Most beta men would rather die than be called a 'loser' by women (alpha men, of course, know better than to take this at face value). White Knights also join in the chorus of shaming other men since they blunderously believe that this is a pathway to the satiation of their lust.

I know men are a different species. But honestly: It takes a whole lot more guts to be vulnerable and accept possible defeat than it does to be the agressor. Asking for help is NOT a shame. Not having the guts to ask for help IS!

Quote: Most single men could eke out a comfortable existence by working for two months out of the year.

Errr... if he lives at home, with his MOM, then yes. Even if he's on his own, with no co-dependencies, that's not true.

Quote: while men would still fulfill all of their traditional obligations.

Traditional doesn't equal satisfactional - for either part. Grow to live beyond traditions and expectations. Create you own!

Quote: and the alphas with Venusian Arts competence will find an even easier field of desperate women to enjoy.

Enjoy? Really? Do you degrade your own sex so much that you think that virtual satisfaction is all you're going to need to feel happy? What happened to Darwin, and the urge to reproduce - an idea that you really forwarded earlier in this thread. That urge is obviously never going to set in with virtual sex. So what you're basically saying is that Alpha males will subside into mushrooms, like a poem by Sylvia Plath. Here, we're talking non-rational (thank God, or whomever), or rational and stripped of faith.

Quote: 'Consider, also, that we are already 20 years into this 40-year process, so each of these women are 40 years old today.'

According to your own figure, not quite. If you have two children as a woman while in your 20's, it's highly unlikely that you'll automatically be a double grandma when you're in your 40s. 50s would seem more likely.

Quote: No woman feels attraction for a needy man.

But this goes both ways. Men aren't attracted to needy women, either. When you distinguish between alpha and beta males, don't forget that not all women belong to the same category, either. So rather than trying to use this as a nail to hammer home your point about women, it's actually true for most people. People, who are attracted to needy people, are people, who are themselves insecure, regardless of gender.

Quote: The poor surrogate mother in India earns more than she could earn in 10 years in her prior vocation of construction or housecleaning. It is a win-win for everyone involved

So you think it's entirely without personal cost for a woman to be a surrogate mom, to play host to a stranger's sperm and give birth to his child - and then give it up? Really? Some things cannot be measured in dollars - or rupees, for that matter.

Quote: if we also legally mandate that 50% of all imprisonments are of women, and 50% of the jobs that involve working with heavy machinery, being outdoors in inclement weather, inhaling toxic fumes, or apprehending dangerous criminals are also occupied by women. Fair is fair. Any takers?

I agree that women should shoulder their part of the "dirty jobs". But claiming that 50% of all imprisonments should be of women would need 50% of imprisonment crimes being committed by women - and this isn't the case currently. Or are you willing to put innocent women behind bars in the name of equality?

I don't consider myself a feminist. I do respect the differences between the sexes and agree that these are important. On the other hand, I absolutely fail to see why that should prevent me from having a career and what I see as a fulfilling life away from home.

...

Okay - very interesting post, all in all. Quite rabid. Many erronerous conclusions. We're all entitled to an opinion. I agree that misunderstood 'feminism' is destructive, but I don't believe that a return to women being stay-at-home mothers being the answer, either. There's got to be a way that will let men be men and women be women without compromising the idea of a fulfilling career for both. Maybe we can start by asking for help from the opposite sex when we need it, instead of pretending that we can do everything by ourselves?

The Futurist

Kathrina Martinsen,

Your 'objections' completely ignore the supporting evidence provided in the article (which is itself a form of opposition that I thoroughly predicted and pre-empted).

Let's correct your errors, shall we?

Wrong supposition.

It is a correct supposition, that is validated by science and seen in the dating market all the time. Next.

Meaning that the children are not harmed when men break the commitment? Erroneous conclusion!

As stated in the artice, women initiate 90% of divorces. Women are nowadays openly saying that their 'husband no longer adds value', so they ditch him but still feel entitled to his money. Your mask has slipped already.

Men leaving relationships with children, whether married or unmarried, definitely have an impact on those children!

Again, it is women who do this 90% of the time, usually for financial gain. The 'deadbeat dad' myth is a feminist fiction to distract from the wrongdoings of feminists.

If 20s women are fit after carrying three children to term, it means she's also done A LOT of hard physical labour

Nope, it was the result of normal labor and a normal diet. This is why outside of the US, women usually aren't fat even after having children.

So... beauty really is just skin deep then, for you? Nothing to do with aging,

You clearly know nothing about what men are attracted to. Physical beauty of a woman does matter, as is painfully obvious in any observation of the dating market.

Why else are men attracted to women, who are 'hard to get' as opposed to those, who're willing to do the deed on the first date -

Completely false. You are stuck in the characteristic female solipism. Men like agreeable women, not 'hard to get' women.

Men aren't attracted to needy women, either.

False. You are completely unqualified to discuss what men are attracted to, as you are projecting female biases outward.

And I'm a (somewhat) single female of 35, still wanting children, and not wanting to be a single mom, but on the other other hand not wanting to settle.

Doesn't that say it all. Feminism has robbed you by feeding you a pack of lies. A woman of 35 is far, far less desirable to men than a woman of 27. There is no way around that fact.

to play host to a stranger's sperm and give birth to his child - and then give it up? Really? Some things cannot be measured in dollars - or rupees, for that matter.

They do it willingly, knowing that they earn more than they culd in 10 years of their other work (usually hard labor). Only lefty feminist types oppose this sort of surrogacy, for obvious reasons.

Or are you willing to put innocent women behind bars in the name of equality?

Bogus strawman, and completely misses the point. Women have no business repeating the tired old lie of 'being underpaid' for the clear reasons mentioned.

Quite rabid. Many erronerous conclusions.

Actually, it is quite fair. It is feminists who are so rabid that the cannot engage in anything other than projection (as explained in the article).

I agree that misunderstood 'feminism' is destructive,

Good. So do something to fight it

There's got to be a way that will let men be men and women be women without compromising the idea of a fulfilling career for both.

Remove government meddling, and both genders would be happier in gender-normative roles.

MC

Most of what I've read seems fairly reasonable. However I'm having some issues deciding how I should proceed from here.

Background: I'm 19, male, an engineering student at a respectable school. I look good and I'm in shape. I have always had trouble interacting with women, screwing up multiple dates. And I'm still a virgin. So I looked into Game ("Venusian Arts").

I'm not going to deny its effectiveness, as some of the better sources out there leverage real psychological principles, but I do have problems with it, mainly the logistics and some of the underlying assumptions. Someone commented that Game doesn't stop any of the problems associated with the article, mainly unaccountability for knee-jerk decisions and living life "in the moment". From what I've seen out in "the field", this is exactly true.

So then Game seems to only have short-term benefits to men looking to get laid (i.e me) but in the long-term it doesn't solve the problems for people who care (like me). To be honest I've been giving up with Game recently mostly because the whole process just sucks. I don't like drinking alcohol. I don't like dancing to loud shitty music mixed by a DJ. And I certainly don't like mind-numbing conversations with intoxicated morons. But at the same time... I want to be having a lot of sex!

Worse yet, there's so much negative stigma associated with being a male virgin. Even though I know it's not that big of a deal (or at least shouldn't be), I end up feeling bad because of all the conditioning around me. I know others in my position that as a result feel inferior to women - the system at work, I figure.

Prostitution isn't an option for me. I don't think any less of the guys who do it though, that's their choice. I don't have the resources to make it happen. Also, the whole idea seems too inauthentic to me, since she's not there because she wants to be.

What it really comes down to, for me, is this: how do I become an alpha-male while still standing up for a principles that I believe in (e.g. accountability for one's actions, others in this article)? I can't think of anywhere else to ask.

Is it even possible to become alpha? I started off with a rather crappy childhood: parents getting divorced, women mistreating me, etc. Some girls made a betting game out of getting me to go out with them, I felt so betrayed that I didn't talk to another girl for 3 years. But now I've done some work to get passed those issues, I'm realizing my potential in college, and I'm getting physically fit as well.

I just want to make sure that I get on the right path as I enter adulthood.

Savethemales

MC, please see my reply to Peter. Youll want to hold off on getting laid till virtual reality of 2020. Please ignore the shaming language, they are the losers, not us virgins. Yes im a virgin and proud, my life is better for it. No worries of STDs, false rape, pregnancy, harm, etc that befalls others.

The Futurist

MC,

The solution for you is to learn Game, and do the hard work to learn it well.

Don't worry about false rape accusations. Game will teach you how to avoid women likely to do that. Plus, false accusations are usually not filed by more attractive women, as they have no need for the attention-getting tactic that false accusations are. Game is the only way you will be able to get the hotter women.

So then Game seems to only have short-term benefits to men looking to get laid (i.e me) but in the long-term it doesn't solve the problems for people who care (like me).

Absolutely false. The article itself has links to how to use Game for long-term relationships. You still have a very incomplete understanding of Game.

Avoiding women altogether is no way to live your life, even more so if you are only 19. MGTOW is not a good choice, certainly not for a man your age. Ignore any such advice.

What it really comes down to, for me, is this: how do I become an alpha-male while still standing up for a principles that I believe in (e.g. accountability for one's actions, others in this article)?

Why do you think Game is incompatible with this? It is not.

I just want to make sure that I get on the right path as I enter adulthood.

Learn GAME. Go to Roissy's and ask lots of questions to the other commenters.

The Futurist

Savethemales,

I am a MGTOW and strongly feel this is far better than game in the fight against feminism. You(and many men) spend 10s to 100s of thousands on women over your lifetime, mostly for sex.

This sentence tells me you still have no idea what Game is. A man with Game does not spend money against his will.

Game is a major way to fight feminism, and to bring happiness to men AND to women. MGTOW will never appeal to a broad range of men, for obvious reasons.

Savethemales

"Don't worry about false rape accusations. Game will teach you how to avoid women likely to do that."

Reduce the risks, yes, but not eliminate them. Any woman can file false rape, even her friends could file them on her behalf and you are guilty till proven innocent.

"Avoiding women altogether is no way to live your life, even more so if you are only 19. MGTOW is not a good choice, certainly not for a man your age. Ignore any such advice."

Ive read your other posts, including the one on "Actuarial Escape Velocity" and believe in this. There will be thousands of years to enjoy life with all kinds of amazing technology, including virtual reality that feels as real as reality. In 2020, we will all get the chance to be with hot virtual women.

It's his choice if he wants to risk relationships with women in today's matriarchy. I have chosen to go my own way and so have many other men that I talk to. There's so many things to enjoy in life that doesn't center around women and sex. We will all get our chance with VR and robogirl tech anyway.

"This sentence tells me you still have no idea what Game is. A man with Game does not spend money against his will."

What if he doesn't want to spend at all or split the expenses 50-50? I understand that spending thousands on a woman is a huge waste and that marriage is a huge mistake for men.

"Game is a major way to fight feminism, and to bring happiness to men AND to women."

I don't understand how game fights feminism, but I understand it lets men have women at his risk because the laws are designed to screw over men. Use game in a male-friendly country or only after feminism has fallen.

I can fully understand how VR technologies(2020) and robogirls(2030) will bring happiness to millions of men, betas in particular. That horseman alone may be responsible for the downfall of feminism. There's much discussion on this in blogs and other forums.

"MGTOW will never appeal to a broad range of men, for obvious reasons."

Men going their own way is a self preservation movement, designed to protect us from the oppression of the matriarchy. I do want to be with women, but it's not safe to do so and ive seen countless men have their lives ruined by feminism, even those with game. Women have game too and will try to trap you by getting pregnant(even if they have to cockold you) or marrying you(common law marriage in some states and countries applies). I know an alpha man who's been married and divorced 3 times. He still has game, but all those women add up hugely in cost.

We see MGTOW as a temporary thing(10 year wait) till we can be with virtual girls then with robogirls. No game required and you can have all the virtual girls you want and they will look better than the vast majority of real women without the risks of STDs, false rape, pregnancy, injuries, etc. I would not be surprised if most betas and some alphas turn to VR then to robogirls(but still using ever evolving VR)

No one knows when feminism will fall, ive asked this question here and on men's rights blogs. I understand your predictions and agree there's a good chance feminism will fall by 2020 but who knows what the government will do to prop up feminism. It could take decades for feminism to slowly unwind from the system.

Peter Feller

Hi MC,
I am also an engineer but a few years older than you. The game hasn't changed much at all and the same rules apply. Savethemales recommends staying celibate, but that’s simply not an option for me and most other guys. I would go nuts and start banging sheep.
It’s good that you got a glimpse into the PUA life. As an engineering student, you simply will not have the time to delve fully into the Game. There is just no way especially if you’re in a demanding engg field such as comp or elec. The PUA game is not a solution for your life goals nor is it a key to happiness or love. It simply gives you options as a man. Attractive women have these presented to them on a platter. Even the dumbest grade 9 girl who can’t multiply to save her life knows that every guy in the school wants to bang her. Later in life (assuming she stays attractive), she uses this to get what SHE wants in life. Most of the time, she uses men to fulfill her goals.
We men prefer to work hard and achieve what we have in life. But when you’re still young and in your 20’s, you aren’t financially well off enough to use it to attract women. You need some game. Thankfully, the PUA routine works for a broad range of guys, attractive or not. You do not need to fall in love with every one of these chicks you score with, but you have the option of choosing which girl you like and then using the PUA on her until you have her. And then, if you change your mind, you can drop her for another. It just opens a lot of options with women that you wouldn’t have otherwise had. Why do you think so many guys get trapped into marriage?! One of the reasons is because they feel that they might not get another half-decent looking girl. They are not confident in their own skills and this makes them afraid of letting go of their girl, no matter how much of a bitch she might be or how ugly she might be.
Even if you get a hot and nice girl, there is a saying that for the 1st year of marriage, put a penny in a jar for every time you have sex. After the first year, remove a penny for every time you have sex. Most of the time, you will never end up emptying the jar.
The above saying holds true because both you and your girl (whether married or not) get less interested in banging each other as time goes by. But her options decrease as she gets older and yours increase. So it makes sense for you to look for a younger, hotter, nicer model unless she is absolutely amazing in every way imaginable and doesn’t even age. So getting married just serves to lock into a really bad contract on penalty of losing half of what you have and paying for her kids. And make no mistake about it, those are HER kids and not yours.
Savethemales, take a look at the Mystery method and watch some of his videos. Mystery went to school in my city and his game is played widely across the city. It works wonders and puts a lot of power back into the hands of the men who can use it. I have seen it work first hand with my buddies who are some of the most docile and beta males who I never dreamed who get the women that they get. Sometimes, they give me good competition – something that I quite enjoy. The chase, for me, is better than the spoils any day.

Peter Feller

oh, and another quick thing.

Women 35 and over are considered elderly in clinical practice. Ask any doctor. Or google it:
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/elderly+primigravida

Your odds of having a baby with Trisomy 21 (Down Syndrome) are:

Women under age 23—1 in 2,000 births
Women at age 35—1 in 400 births
Women at age 40—1 in 90 births
Women at age 45—1 in 32 births
Women at age 50—1 in 8 births
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/10/T107400.asp

So your worth in childbearing is pretty bad. And I love it how feminists have started to try and push their agenda by asserting that the quality of sperm deteriorate with age. Amazing what garbage comes out of their mouths.

no country for old men

The decline of our economy and civilization is caused directly by feminism.

Marriage is the foundation of civilization. Before it, humans organized as castes.

A few (approx 20%) men mated with most (approx 80%) women. The other men lived on the margins of society (the caste).

Labor of the few men who mated was not great enough to advance civilization.

Maintaining power and control over the population (women and men) required dishonest and nefarious means, including violence, manipulation, lying, etc... all their time and effort was invested in mating and precluding other men from mating opportunities and the benefits of a "family".

Marriage and the laws associated with it were invented about 4,000 years ago to harness labor of all these other men and to improve quality of life and competition with other less "civilized" or evolved societies (that still existed as castes).

Once marriage was invented and most men were compensated for their labor with a family and children, civilization advanced.

Without marriage and any laws to enforce it, women have turned civilization on its head - we are now devolving.

Approx two-thirds of all adult men in the US during the past forty years have been married, and more than half of them are victims of unilateral, and more frequently than not, malicious divorce.

Without any laws anymore to enforce a marriage contract, more than half of couples have divorced during the past forty years, and women initiate it in more than 80% of instances (the other less than 20% is either mutual or initiated by the man - so, as you can see, the frequency with which women initiate divorce is greater than that of men by a multiple of around eight).

In almost all instances, women get custody of children and men are ordered to pay child-support in great excess of what they can afford - States order excessive child support because it receives approx fifty cents in federal subsidies for every dollar it transfers from fathers to mothers.

Since marriage is no longer a benefit to a majority of men for advancing and maintaining civilization, a majority of men are being forced into slavery to advance it. This slavery is enforced by threat of imprisonment for inability to pay child-support, suspension of passports and driver licenses, and suspension of business licenses and credit.

In response to this development, men have invested in a huge criminal subculture that does not support civilization, but still allows men to exist on the margins of society the way they did before invention of marriage more than 4,000 years ago.

In addition to investing in a huge criminal subculture to support themselves in the absence of any benefits of a civilization while they are forced to live in a caste, men are refusing to attend college and work because there are no longer any advantages to either.

At the same time, women are being encouraged to work. But since they do not possess the independent thought or intellectual capacity to make enough important contributions for advancing civilization, the ruling class continues to enslave men.

We continue to devolve into the same caste system that existed before 4,000 years ago. I guess people weren't happy with civilization. Maybe a reminder of the way things were will encourage reinstitution of marriage and the laws for enforcing the contract.

Adultery and paternity fraud and lies that women tell must be punished to the extremes. There must be no compensation and certainly no reward for a woman leaving a marriage. She will get no custody and child-support. Since there has never ever been in human history the kind of epidemic domestic violence that feminists broadcast propaganda and lies about today, it's nothing we need to worry about. And if it is, then there are already laws and courts to deal with that real and rare criminal behavior - of both men AND women. Rape also is a very rare crime and always has been. Far less common than adultery and paternity fraud.

Mark

A nice article.

Feminism does seem outdated, while many feminists just want to promote equal rights others use it as a soapbox for unrelated occasionally sexist ideals.

An equal rights movement seems like it'd achieve a whole lot more.

Fido

Here's a guy who revels in a culture in which it was common practice to consider the surviving wife of a deceased man as an extra piece of kindling for his funeral pyre.

Here's another male who objectifies women as succubus. Completely unwilling to accept women as peers. Fearful that is if "feminism" is left unchecked, vagina-aliens will soon be seeking out hairy ballsacks to string into necklaces. Fearful of emasculation yet the first thing he should do is grow a pair.

Seemingly, the author has little confidence in his own masculinity, resigning his hapless beta self to a virtual reality of porno and fapdom lest we start lobotomizing women to fit his needs. Seriously, maybe we should and this guy could just STFU.

The Futurist

Fido (a dog's name, appropriately),

Your comment is both racist, and historically ignorant.

Nothing in the article indicates any of your screeching, which means your accusations are projection (which the article also preemptively predicts).

You need to work on correcting your projection, and your extreme anti-male bigotry (as well as your reading comprehension). It will be hard work for you to correct your flaws.

Savethemales

Hi Futurist,

Please see my September 4 reply above to you(regarding false rape, game and MGTOW). As for India, it makes me sad to alert you that feminism is rapidly growing there(Google this). I was thinking of expating from America, but there may be no point going from one matriarchy to another (growing) matriarchy.

While I agree that feminism will begin it's downfall by 2020, I am not optimistic the misandry bubble will pop, but it may deflate slowly over several decades. Feminism/misandry is too ingrained in the minds of many women and some manginas. Many other men besides me are seeing VR/sexbots/robogirls as the best and safest means of being with women in the future.

How many times have you edited your long article since you posted it earlier this year? I agree with about 90% of it and have shown dozens of others your article. An update/revision that explains the venusian arts in detail would inform us readers. We also don't understand why you consider it a horseman, there's no explanation. I concur that game works and can get you women, it's your choice and risk. Id still much rather go my way(millions of men have done this successfully) and wait for VR and robogirls because it's much safer plus alot of us men are simply disgusted at the lack of morals/respect women have. The alpha men can have all the human women they want, we aren't interested. Us beta men will get all the 10/10+(looks, personality and brains) virtual and robotic women we want and can afford.

http://antimisandry.com/abuse-dv/indian-wife-abuses-husband-son-witnesses-indiatv-25377.html

Indian Wife Abuses Husband, Son Witnesses - on IndiaTV
Purushottam Mahajan was physically and mentally abused by his wife, he has videotapes of about 60 days of abuse, many men do not even have this evidence, some of them suicide!. The Police has not yet taken action on Purushottam's complaint against spousal-abuse, even after 2 years of his complaint to various police and other authorities.

The Futurist

Savethemales,

One small anecdote about India is nowhere near saying things like alimony and no-fault divorce are imminent there. They are not, and it is absurd to believe they are, in a country with under 10% divorce rate, and women marry as virgins.

Venusian Arts : There are links in the article that explain the basics, in the article already.

MGTOW is not a path many men would be happy with, surely you recognize this. It is certainly is not the right thing to advise a 20-year-old boy.

cheetah

Come on guys. The bot thing is taking things a bit too far, don't you think? I, for one, love women - their smell, shape, softness and even their messed up emotional minds. There is no way that a bot can do it for men. You will essentially have to ignore the fact that you are with an inanimate object. And doing something like that over time will render you almost useless in the social arena since you will soon lose all your social skills. Not to mention that we have NO idea when or if technology will get to the point of such reality.

PUA game is a much better option and it is here now. Brilliant guys have come up with ways to improve men's self confidence transforming them into unbeatable players. Forums and boards have made it possible to learn from our mistakes with women and evolve. Trusting women is for a bad gambler. For the rest of us, we should build up our PUA game to the max and use it to get scores of women, build confidence and basically be the man.

I am very new to the game, but on my first night, I opened countless sets at a nightclub (which I used to despise) and even got a girl to go home with me. All this with basic lines and some in-built charm, I guess. Imagine what a few months of training and practice can do!

The Futurist

cheetah,

I fully agree. See what I have been writing in response to 'savethemales'.

Bots are not happening anytime soon, and won't be very appealing.

3D/VR is a supplemental experience (much like strip clubs today), and helps correct the inflated power level that women in the 6-8 range presently enjoy, but is not meant to be a fully satisfying substitute.

Game is a must for a happy life, for sure. The MGTOW option is not going to bring happiness for most men (and would not be popular with them, to say the least).

Keep practicing. Do at least 20 approaches a week. Do both daytime and nighttime approaches, and compare the dynamics between the two. But never stop.

cheetah

What I really love about the game is that when viewed from the standpoint of a social experiment, I really dont give a rats ass about how many times I get rejected. It's quick and painless. In fact, the same girl who rejected me last night ate all my shit up tonight. So that goes to show you that as long as your confidence and skills get better, there's really no woman out of reach. Heck, I might even go for my ex's sister later just to have some fun. Ok, maybe that's not the best idea.

Now when you say approaches, do you mean approach a single girl or open a group of people? Or does it even matter. I find that I am better with approaching two girls alone. Also, I find that I tend to use the exact same opener and follow-ups through the night. Kinda dangerous, I know. But my biggest problem, by far, is that I tend to need to drink in order to be loose enough to start approaching and throwing game. Any advice would be helpful.

The Futurist

cheetah,

Count each 'target' as one approach, but in a group, if you have to get past the guy/ug to talk to the girl first, that still just counts as one total.

But the fact that you are approaching is wonderful. Far too many guys have an intellectual understanding of Game, but just can't do approaches. A man has to do a *lot* of approaches (20 a week) to really get the full benefit. Much like a bicycle not being able to move unless a certain minimum speed is sustained.

It is OK to be limited to just 2-3 good openers. The opener is the least impactful part of the pickup. If you are still talking to a woman after 30 seconds, the opener is in the past, no longer of consequence.

Going after your ex's sister for practice is perfectly fine, after you are at a higher skill level (by which time more time has elapsed). Particularly if she is the YOUNGER sister...

Drinking, however, should not be a dependency. You should practice on being equally competent in daygame, as night game.

Go read approachanxiety.com, rooshv.com, askjdog.com, etc.

Savethemales

The Futurist, I have alot to say and will back up my arguments/debates with facts and links. I have read your older posts and commented on some of those as well.

1. You are a huge fan of game/PUA. This person believes foreign women are the way to go and explains why PUA doesn't work. http://www.happierabroad.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6811

2. A Google search shows that MGTOW is popular and gaining momentum. One guy said: Guys, I say this with complete respect, it is clear that most of you posting here still don’t get it. A man who GOES HIS OWN WAY doesn’t give a damn about what women think of him; women do not define his masculinity, he defines himself. He is no longer interested in the games women play nor in how to win at them. His energy he spent on being the master and beneficiary of his own life. You do not need womens approval to find meaning. That’s the message of MGTOW!

Another guy said: Today, we’re bombarded by propaganda that says “if you can’t get a girl, you’re not worth the gum that sticks to your shoes”. BS I and lots of others say. I have peace, quiet, and freedom as a child-free bachelor. I’d rather die alone than jump through hoops to get women!

If you can't go your own way, consider expating to a patriarchy(that won't become a matriarchy) and dating foreign women.

3. What are your predictions on other patriarchies becomming matriarchies due to feminism? I don't yet know if ill expat from matriarchy America, but I sure as heck don't want to be in another country that will only turn into a matriarchy!

4. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-turing-test.htm

Ray Kurzweil, a famous futurist predicts computers/robots to pass a turing test by 2029. There's a 10k bet on that. Im sure you are familiar on his other predictions(VR, AEV, computers, AI, nanotech, etc)

This is where I base my robogirl in 2030 prediction from. Once a robogirl passes the turing test(look/act human), the uncanny valley(no longer looks fake), becomes affordable($30k max cost)
and has been tested to be safe and reliable, it will be immensely popular.

Of course VR will come first, no argument there, but robogirls is the next logical evolution. Robogirls will be a "10" in looks, brains, personality, etc and be able to do almost anything you want it to do. Your only argument is that human women can love where robots can't. If a woman loves a man, it's conditional love and she won't hesitant to leave him if he can't meet her demands/entitlements. A robogirl will never leave you and can simulate love better than the majority of women can fake love. Here's a man's experience on love:

http://eternalbachelor.blogspot.com/2008/09/and-horse-she-rode-in-on.html

Captain Zarmband said...

This should not be a surprise. Women still regard marriage, and for that matter any relationship with a man, as being all about money. They'll never admit it of course, but for proof you need only look at their behaviour during and after a divorce. All their actions and words are focussed around the idea that "I'm owed" as if demanding some form of compensation.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - a woman is totally incapable of falling in love with a man, she simply falls in love with the lifestyle the man can provide for her. All women's relationships with men revolve around this principle.

5. I feel bad for any man in relationships with women if they live in a matriarchal country(such as America, Canada and UK) where women rule the country and the laws are tailored to them. Lots of men have their lives ruined by false allegations. I am not gonna stop men from taking that risk, but they still must be informed. I have gone my way because I find the risks unacceptable. I don't want to be with a feminist or a slut, but a decent lady and there's so few of them.

-------------------------------

cheetah,

The bot thing is taking things a bit too far, don't you think?

It will give men options and fight feminism. Read my previous posts, I said plenty on robogirls.

I, for one, love women - their smell, shape, softness and even their messed up emotional minds.

I require a decent lady who's emotionally stable. What works for you does not work for many other men, including me.

There is no way that a bot can do it for men. You will essentially have to ignore the fact that you are with an inanimate object.

There won't be much ignoring to do when your bot is indistinguishable from a human woman once we pass the uncanny valley and the turing test.

Doing something like that over time will render you almost useless in the social arena since you will soon lose all your social skills.

Enjoying VR and robogirls does not need preclude a human from interacting with other humans.

We have NO idea when or if technology will get to the point of such reality.

There are no IFs about it, only a question of when. The futurist predicts 2020 for VR girls. I predict 2030 for robogirls. This prediction is contingent on Moore's law holding true, but Moore himself sees his law dying in 10-20 years.

http://news.techworld.com/operating-systems/3477/moores-law-is-dead-says-gordon-moore/

PUA game is a much better option and it is here now. Brilliant guys have come up with ways to improve men's self confidence transforming them into unbeatable players. Forums and boards have made it possible to learn from our mistakes with women and evolve.

Can PUA guarantee me a decent lady with morals and respect for herself who will never, ever file false allegations against me?

Trusting women is for a bad gambler.

I agree there, and is why im staying single.

we should build up our PUA game to the max and use it to get scores of women, build confidence and basically be the man.

I don't need "scores of women" to prove im a man. I have confidence and happiness without women. My reason for wanting a woman is for the romance and companionship. Unfortunately, this can't be done safely in a matriarchy. I read and post on men's rights forums and blogs and have seen how feminism oppresses men. Lots of men have gone their way and are now waiting for virtual reality and robogirls. They will get to be with "perfect 10" women without the risks.

I will wish you good luck on your game and hope it makes you happy and hope you don't get in legal trouble or waste money. I could never be an alpha as im a "nice guy" and will not pretend to be someone I am not. If women don't want me for me, then they are missing out on a nice guy. Im not bitter(their shaming language) about it because there's so much more to life than women and I know ill get my chance in 10 years with VR. 10 years is a drop in the bucket when my generation may live to the AEV and tech. singularity.

The Futurist

SavetheMales,

Two huge flaws in your comment are :

1) Assuming all Game is PUA, even though the article clearly describes otherwise.
2) Anyone who says Game does not work has clearly not tried it, and is too unwilling to admit that his results are in fact within his control. My article also states how 80% of men have no capacity to comprehend Game..

A Google search shows that MGTOW is popular and gaining momentum.

I doubt anyone else here or elsewhere will buy that. A movement of men who are actively disinterested in women? No chance of getting anywhere, except with men over 50..

Annhiro

Here in Australia, alimony to childless women doesn't seem to exist, we all love each other and leave each other on equal terms. Your women all sound like sociopaths, it really astounds me.

Rusty

"Bleh" totally owns this thread. Game is a byproduct of radical feminism, as is gamers' grossly underdeveloped understanding of what being a real man has always been about in the West. Gamers are the wretched refuse of the earlier culture wars, the mutant children of decades of Marxism in the government schools, Hollywood, and Washington DC. And they are now, along with the whores they work on, part of the problem. What gamers needed was to grow up around real men and to have studied real history. Perhaps a few will break their masturbatory addiction and move on to normal family life and raise true men and women. Those who do will have a much better understanding of why western men have always been different from the barbarians in more than just physical attributes.

james kroeker

wow someone told the truth on the internet, meaning the author in this case,forget the flak they all will pay sooner or later.

The Futurist

Rusty,

There are so many things wrong with your ignorant comment, that it could not be worse even if someone wanted to create satire.

You haven't the slightest clue what Game is, despite it being defined in clear red letters. The article clearly states that Game is useful even in monogamous relationships, but since that does not fit into your ignorant and envious narrative, you ignored it.

This means you are actually opposed to men working to make themselves more attractive to women. What type of 'man' opposes that?

You also are too afraid to hold women accountable. Game is merely a market response to what women have themselves become. That you slam men for adapting to reality shows your sycophantic pedestalization of women.

Your complete ignorance about women is also described in the article under the 'pedestalizer/socialcon' section.

Kargan3033

Hey everyone been reading up on the coments here and all you have put forth good points and bad points.
As for myself I'm MGTOW all the way, I have always been a loner by nature so it's only natural that I would go MGTOW in the face of femanazism.
One thig you all seem to misunderstand is that while we men and young men are in the same boat concerning femanazisim we seem to forget that we are each indvigual men and not a herd of sheep like women and girls.

So for some MGTOW works, for others it's VR/Robogirls and for others it's Game.
So there is no one "SYSTEM " that is the right way, it's a matter of what works for you or what you think works for you, if you think game works for you and it works out for you then you have found what you need, if VR/Robogirls work for you then you have found what you need, if expating to a male friendly country and finding a nice FW works for then it works for you.
If something does not work you such as game, then try something new and keep trying new things untill you find what works for in your heart of hearts.

It's all about suirvival and survival means the same thing to men and young men and boys such as food and water, clothing a roof over your head and a stable income flow to aford those nasscties of life, beyond that survival takes on a doffrent mean for each man, young man and boy, see what I am saying.

For us men survival is not a one size fit all applacation like it is with women and girls, we each do what we must to not only survive in these dark times for men, young men and boys what we also do our best to help each other out once we have what we need to survive, Bro's Before Ho's

So find what you think works for you and go with it, if it does work out then sit back and enjoy life while helping your Bro's out and if it does not work out then change tactics and find what works for you and if your not sure as to what you think will work for you, talk to your Bro's and see what they have to say, but that does not mean you take everything a Bro tells you as the gosple truth like women and girls have done with femanazisim.

Men for the most part are resonable, loical beings so put your Manpower to work for you and listen to what your Bro's have to say and then use your brain to decied what you think will work for you and go for it, you will never know if something is going to work for you or not untill you try it, that's why men are better then women in the aspect that the majorty of men are risk takers who push back the edge of human ignroance by trying new things and reaping the rewards of experance good or bad where are women and girls for the most part like to pay it safe and think like a heard instead of the lone wolf who is the master of all her survays due to his strength(mental/pyhcal), his boldness and his integratve.

God bless you and your loved once in your trip through life and remeber Bro's Before Ho's, do be a sell out traitor like the femanazis/women's goverment pimps who sold out their brothers for a wife of pussy and more power and money.
Kargan3033

cheetah

The Futurist,

I lived in India for more than half my life and now in a Western country. I have to wonder what you feel India offers that the US doesn't. To me, moving back permanently would not even be an option. The exploding population, widespread corruption and the level of air and water pollutants are unbearable. In addition, the culture in large cities is moving towards that of the west. Indians want to be more westernized and readily admit it. Granted, the divorce rates in India pale in comparison to the US, but surely this cannot be your only reason.

There was an article in the paper in which a couple from the UK were going to divorce but the husband was in Nigeria for an extended period of time. He filed for divorce in Nigeria and the divorce proceedings were carried out there. The UK courts had no choice but to accept the Nigerian court's decisions on splitting assets. The man won huge in this case since the system there is more fair and doesn't take the man to the cleaners. Do you have any idea about how a man (like myself) who might file for divorce in the future can do something similar - let's say in India instead of Nigeria?

I have approached several law firms but they say that they only file in the US and do not provide legal advice across international jurisdictions. Some have also told me that it would be unfair to file in India. We really need to put together a divorce procedure manual for men of Indian origin to be able to file for divorce in India and have Indian courts deal with it.

The Futurist

cheetah,

Let me put it this way : India has changed a lot. As recently as 2006, if someone were to ask me about my chances of moving to India, I would have said a hard 0%. But today, I would say 25%. Go read my 'Culture of Success' article to see what I thought about India not too long ago.

Also, India's LT capital gains tax rate is zero, whereas in US states like CA and NY, it can be 30% or more.

Of course, if a man really wants to be a PUA, the US is better, places like Manhattan, Los Angeles, San Francisco, or Las Vegas in particular.

Some have also told me that it would be unfair to file in India.

Oh, so it is OK if it is unfair TO THE MAN, as US laws are. Disgusting whiteknights, they are. This incident alone should tell you how much misandry is accepted as normal.

My understanding is that the place where you lived in the last 6 months is where you have to file. This is why a family man is ultimately better off living in India.

NEVER get married without a pre-nup, no matter how much others pressure/shame you. Even if your own parents are against it, it is because they just don't know how the law works. A man can no more get married without a pre-nup as he can go around without health or auto insurance. NEVER get married without a pre-nup (which still does not guarantee safety, just increases your odds).

Savethemales

Kargan3033, thanks for your post and being a MGTOW. Youll survive just fine and in a decade, you can have all the virtual girls. :)

cheetah, see my long reply to you on September 15, 2010 at 04:54 AM. I also was surprised to find out you made the mistake of marriage and want out. Have you considered moving back to India?

GK, if game can help improve a loving, monogameous relationship or marriage, then im all for it. But if you are already single, id still advise men to stay that way and be free.

Even with a prenup, marriage is still a good deal for women. Of course she will try to shame you out of a prenup, perhaps even refuse to marry you. If she does marry, she will find a judge that will not honor your prenup as she divorces you. Worst case, she still gets your children and lots of child support, something no prenup can legally protect you from. Hence, never marry in a matriarchy!

Ok, so maybe MGTOW isn't popular for alpha men with game, but for the other 80% who can't/won't game, it'll save them alot of trouble and failed relationships and false allegations. Virtual girls is the way to go for them. As to replacing real women, it will for most betas because a virtual 10 beats a real 7 and also because their minds will become warped and average women will simply be ignored. Most men will become too jaded to believe in "love" as they found out themselves or thru their friends. I don't believe in love myself and don't believe the majority of women are capable of unconditional love. Hence, virtual love will be the option for most men.

You still maintain that robogirls won't ever become popular. I mention that robogirls will get to the point they can do everything and more vs. a human woman. There will be all kinds of safety elements. What if you get a stroke or heart attack? Then your robogirl can administer medicine while wirelessly dialing 911. Your robogirl can act as a guard to protect you from robothugs. Your robogirl can do all kinds of chores around the house and be programmed to love you unconditionally.

Even when virtual reality becomes "real" by 2040(kurzweil says 2030) thanks to nanobots, robogirls won't go away as they will still be needed in the real world. Virtual reality isn't just an outlet to get beautiful women, anything goes and the only limitation is your imagination. I believe human male-female relationships will be a thing of the past by then. Robots will have taken almost all our jobs and humans will have fun all day in their virtual utopia. This will continue towards the tech. singularity and past that.

cheetah

Savethemales,

I am not married. No way will I be making that mistake. I was merely probing the possibility of international divorce as an alternative to the retarded divorce laws of the west.

Although, I would like to ask you guys about how you feel about being alone when you're older and most other guys around have wives and children. They are going out as couples on trips and you are still trying to pick up every chance you get. Sounds like a lot of work with not much time to just relax with someone you can be yourself around. This is the question that plagues me.

ReaderLon

What do you say? http://www.rooshv.com/the-future-of-game#comments

Savethemales

cheetah, You had me worried there. I am not afraid of being alone because as I mentioned before, robogirls will be a reality by 2030 and trips will be done with virtual reality with virtual girls in 2020. Im not going to waste my time on picking up sluts, ive gone my way and will enjoy life single. America is a matriarchy and there's few ladies. Many married men get screwed over in the divorce and end lonely. See my long reply to you on September 15, 2010 at 04:54 AM, I made some good points.

ReaderLon, that blog forgot to include virtual reality(a horseman) and robogirls(I discuss this in my previous comments) I predict half the alpha men and almost all the beta men to be with VR girls by 2020. This is easier than game, takes far less effort and is much safer and gets you 10/10+ perfect women.

Paragonteam

I was married to a woman who made and still makes a few million per month. I wasn't happy in that relationship and I did the ''honerable'' thing and through a long series of meansprited manipulations I now have hardly any visual contact with our daughter. I am reduced to a ''phone-dad'' I am writing a book about it and it is not pretty. By nature of their prolific breeding muslims in Europe and the US will soon indeed have Shira Law Courts and that will end it right there for all woman. Once and for all. Not a good forecast but one that will certainly put men back in total control....
If white woman stop breeding the muslims will and that is the end of what we now know to be ''democratic society''
And as far as these ''feminists''...I yet have to see one that is actually very attractive....that is why they turn to male-hate policies because no male will want to spend money on them...after all ''we'' men view beautiful woman to be better in giving us healtier babies (true to some extent) and will go for the best ''deal'' we can litteraly lay their hands on.
I am now married to a fitness model who is also a RN and gave me the most beautiful son I can ever ask for. I was a model actor and I saw what kids my co models were popping...indeed, very beautiful kids. That is the ONLY thing Hitler was right about: healthy and beautiful people will make better babies.
And as long as the upbringing is good our society will in fact become more attractive (look at Sweden-Holland-or Check republic). All I am saying is that fat-red-necks (the average American) shouldn't have kids (as if they would ever listen lol), what I mean is that if they stop eating the garbage and pick better looking, smarter breeding partners the kids would be better looking, healthier and treated far better. I my self know how it is to be considerd ''very handsome'' and I tell you how much better I get treated by woman and man alike than my ''regular joe'' friends. It is unfair but it all comes down to the LAW OF NATURE. My wife trains woman to change their diet and mental state and has them lose enormous amounts of fat longterm by replacing junk food and MSG laden garbage with organic. Gets them to work out with weights (the ONLY effective way fat will actually stay off) and ALL of these woman LOVE how man respond to them after wards... So, indeed, there is no secret here; The law of nature dictates what goes on on planet earth. Fighting it will only get you elected to the white House (Obama) or join a feminist club and be frustrated that all the pretty girls have all the fun...and try to change it and lose in the end.

cheetah

The Futurist,

This question was actually directed at you.

How do you feel about being alone when you're older and most other guys around have wives and children? They are going out as couples on trips and you are still trying to pick up every chance you get. Sounds like a lot of work with not much time to just relax with someone you can be yourself around.

I'm sure you must have thought about this since it is what we get if we stay away from marriage.

The Futurist

cheetah,

Many flawed assumptions in your question. For starters :

1) Who says you can't go on a cruise with your girlfriend? Someone who does not have massive legal leverage over you?

2) Getting married now is far, far from a guarantee that you won't be alone in old age. So many Western old men are not just alone, but in poverty, due to alimony payments, etc. The woman leaves as his career earnings peak. She is gone, but he still has to pay. Retirements are delayed by 10 years or more due to alimony requirements.

So if in old age, your choices are to be alone and financially self-sufficient, or alone in poverty, which is better?

3) You seem to have missed the part in the article of single men now being able to get donor eggs + a surrogate in India for just $20,000. This path is not for everyone, but for a man who really wants to, this avenue does exist. Also, you can have a girlfriend, and even marry (with a pre-nup) later, but the kids are LEGALLY YOURS and YOURS ALONE.

Sounds like a lot of work with not much time to just relax with someone you can be yourself around.

You seem to think that Game cannot lead to relationships. Again, a very incomplete understanding of Game.

Spend time with a family more than 10 years into marriage. Notice the subtle nagging by the wife, as well as how hard the man works but how little thanks he gets. Also be brutally honest about whether the wife is still remotely attractive...

Many Indians seem to suffer from an unshakeable belief that a) sex only can happen within marriage, and b) that marriage is permanent. Even though you know better, your questions reveal the deep-seatedness of the Indian background.

They believe this because this was generally true in India, and they had the luxury of a childlike ignorance of human sexuality. But both assumptions are increasingly untrue, and most Indians are not even remotely prepared for the changes that globalization would bring to India.

The Futurist

cheetah,

You need to start separating the concept of 'companionship' from the legal contract of marriage, which IS a business contract.

This is next to impossible for an Indian to do, but it can be done. Indians in India have the luxury of simplistic ignorance, because the 1% of Indians were geniuses who devised a system where the other 99% could live their lives smoothly despite having no knowledge whatsoever. The Indian customs of keeping girls virgins, have them move in with the inlaws after marriage, with dowry as a security bond, were brilliant, and reveal an excellent understanding of female psychology.

1% of Indians were geniuses, and created a system that could enable the other 99% to live in ignorant bliss. Indians follow these customs, even though they have no inkling of the 'why' behind any of it...

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name and email address are required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)